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Old 03-27-2016, 01:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Yamaha Aventage receivers vs. Denon receivers... Who takes the cake?

FINALLY I've narrowed down my receiver choices (gonna be running a Klipsch Reference Premiere setup), to either:

A) the Yamaha Aventage A2050 or

B) the Denon X4200W

Both are the same price and pack pretty much the same features

WHICH one would have the upper hand in pure insane THEATER sound (explosions and bass and punch and all that jazz)

I will not be using this for music listening (I prefer headphones for music)
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Old 03-27-2016, 02:09 AM
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Depends. Do you like chocolate or vanilla better? Each has their pros. The A2050 is a 9CH model while the X4200W is a 7CH model that can expand to 9CH using an external 2CH amp. The A2050 only has 7.2 pre-outs whereas the X4200W has 13.2 pre-outs. Most would agree Audyssey MultEQ XT32 (down to 20Hz) does a better job at Sub EQ than does YPAO (down to 31hz).
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Old 03-27-2016, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
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So Denon it is? I'm leaning towards it.

I've heard Yamaha receivers are very bright and in your face, and considering Klipsch speakers are also kind of high up there, won't it be better to pair them with a more neutral sounding receiver?
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Old 03-27-2016, 01:01 PM
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I don't think Yamaha is bright. I also don't think YPAO is as good as Audyssey.

IMO both are good brands and you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference sonically in a blind test. I switched from a Yamaha to Denon a few days ago, so far I like some things and dislike others.
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Old 03-27-2016, 01:04 PM
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I have both a Yamaha Aventage and a Denon. Both have been great. Denon has Audyssey which works great but can not be adjusted by the user as you can with the Yamaha. It does deal with bass. The Yamaha has a user adjustable parametric eq which allows you to adjust bass.

Regarding the "bright" Yamaha sound I do not buy it. After YPAO runs you can select your flavor which includes a flat setting and a natural setting. The natural setting is a bit warmer sounding than flat.

Both are good choices.
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Old 03-27-2016, 01:09 PM
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Regardless of which you prefer, call for pricing if located in the USA.
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Old 03-27-2016, 01:13 PM
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If you care about networking aspects and smartphone app of your avr, then yamaha wins handily over denon all day long

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Old 03-27-2016, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by nohcho View Post
If you care about networking aspects and smartphone app of your avr, then yamaha wins handily over denon all day long

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Agree, Yamaha's app is so much nicer. Denon's app is slow with less features. If you have iOS supposedly the DeRemote app is better.
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Old 03-27-2016, 02:49 PM
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Another vote for Yamaha.. Higher reliability than Denon..

Just my $0.02..
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Old 03-27-2016, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XciteMe83 View Post
FINALLY I've narrowed down my receiver choices (gonna be running a Klipsch Reference Premiere setup), to either:

A) the Yamaha Aventage A2050 or

B) the Denon X4200W

Both are the same price and pack pretty much the same features

WHICH one would have the upper hand in pure insane THEATER sound (explosions and bass and punch and all that jazz)

I will not be using this for music listening (I prefer headphones for music)
It really doesn't matter, both will get the job done,
For "insane explosions, and bass punch" you need a great powered sub,
...multiple subs if you can afford it.

I have a Yamaha RX-A3050, 7.4.4 configuration
But the real "power" in my room comes from 4 Velodyne subs
2400 watts(4800w Dynamic)
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Old 03-27-2016, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by nohcho View Post
If you care about networking aspects and smartphone app of your avr, then yamaha wins handily over denon all day long

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I agree 100%, no other manufacturer can touch yamaha on that. In that price range I would have to go with the yamaha. The denon is a couple notches down from the top of the line while yamaha a2050 is second to the top. Denon can't touch yamaha on exterior build quality. I had a yamaha rx a810 that was great and still regret selling it. I am still in search of finding either an a810 or a1010. If not I'll save up for a yamaha or marantz pre/pro.

I have more faith in yamaha lasting for a long time. I would say step up to the denon avr x5200 if you can. If not go with the a2050.
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Old 03-27-2016, 10:51 PM
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Yamahas 1050 and up have metal front and metal flaps whereas denons up to x4200 at least, never seen x6200 or 7200 in person, have a pretty cheap plastic front including cheaply made plastic front door. But avrs all about sound thats what matters most.


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Old 03-27-2016, 11:27 PM
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If there is something lacking in a movie sound track or music, I enjoy the many DSP modes of my Yamaha. I'll start out with the native format in a straight setting, then add the DSP to compare both. You just need to find the right one. I think Yamaha does a wonderful job with this.
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Old 03-28-2016, 05:00 AM
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I went from a Denon 4311 to a Yamaha 3050. The Yamaha is superior in every way. I'm in the minority in that I think YPAO did a better job in my setup that XT32 did.
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Old 03-28-2016, 05:23 AM
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I compared all of the major brands - highest model available at Best Buy.
From an apparent feel, quality point of view, the Yamaha is the best (either 2050 or 3050).
The front is all Aluminum or glass. The door closes with a soft touch.
I don't think the front panel of the Denon 4200 is objectionable. The Pioneer is the worst with a large plastic door.
The volume knob for all of the top models (Marantz, Pioneer, Yamaha) had a kind of analog feel that was also fairly firm, except the 4200 was more of a digital click feel that I don't like (6200 was not at my Best Buy).

People generally say the Yamaha is the most reliable but I haven't seen the data.

The Yamaha has more flexible Zone 2 setup than the Denon/Marantz. According the to manual, you can output analog and HDMI/digital inputs to analog preout OR output HDMI/digital and analog inputs to HDMI output, with the limitation for Zone 2 that HDMI and digital must be in 2 channel PCM, at least if duplicating the main zone. However, it will also do HDMI passthrough (I think automatically down convert to 2 channel) if you choose HDMI zone 4. These options cover my potential use cases better than Denon and Marantz do.

As mentioned, Audyssey XT32 is better out of the box (esp for sub), YPAO is more tweakable, you need PRO to have any tweakability for XT32. It is possible to fix the lack of being able to adjust sub below 31.5 Hz with some kind of sub EQ, like the MiniDSP 2x4. You need something like this anyway if you have more than two subs or non equi-distant subs.

Obviously, pay attention to how many internal amps you want and how many channels total you want. For example, 4200 can control 11 channels at one time, has 7 internal amps. 2050 can control 9 channels, has 9 internal amps. 9 channels can do max 5.2.4 or 7.2.2 Atmos but 2050 can power them all if necessary (depending on volume, etc.). 11 channel can do 7.2.4. Offloading channels to external amps or old receivers helps the power that can be provided per channel by any of these receivers.

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Old 03-28-2016, 07:22 AM
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I had a Harmon/Kardon, then a Denon, and now a Yamaha RX-A2000 that I've had for about 6 years now and the Yamaha is by far the better receiver in my opinion. The Yamaha has a much warmer/fuller sound and the build quality is exceptional. I have it paired to Def Tech Mythos Ones, Mythos 8 center, and supercube 2 sub and they ROCK! The AV Controller app is also great on either Android or iOS. Once YPAO calibrates the speakers, you can tweak it to your personal taste. My next receiver will also be a Yamaha.
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Old 03-28-2016, 07:24 AM
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Ive a yamaha 3040 and its been great. Hugely flexible in terms of zones, adjustability and with Atmos. Its gives plenty of whallop and is fine for music in Pure mode. I added the matching mx-a5000 power amp and biamped the 5 speakers and that really made a difference - im sure id be compatable and that you could pick one up on ebay for half the orginal price - totally worth it. V happy with my yamaha.
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Old 03-28-2016, 08:39 AM
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Gone to Yamaha

I had several Denon before switching to Yamaha. There are two reasons why I prefer Yamaha

The online functions are much better and work well on the iPad app and pc

The ability to adjust to sound parameters is quick and easy. I'm someone who has to tweek sound for certain types of media etc. I just have to play with it and Yamaha made it easy
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Old 03-28-2016, 08:52 AM
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Yamaha 3050 for me. It replaced my 2020 which I just sold on eBay. Both receivers are rock solid, no issues whatever, and both sound great with the nod going to my 3050 as it has a tad more power. The iPhone iPad app is second to none.
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Old 03-28-2016, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post
Another vote for Yamaha.. Higher reliability than Denon..

Just my $0.02..
Yes Yamaha has better reliability and a better app. I don't know why Denon has been so slow with this. Also Yamaha seems to be the only one of the two making money.
Aren't new receivers due soon though for both?
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Old 03-28-2016, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Defcon View Post
I don't think Yamaha is bright. I also don't think YPAO is as good as Audyssey.

IMO both are good brands and you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference sonically in a blind test. I switched from a Yamaha to Denon a few days ago, so far I like some things and dislike others.
I attended a shootout at Allnet, one of the big distributors in Illinois. Having handled Elite, Onkyo, Denon, Yamaha, etc. they pitted two models below your inquiry from both Denon and Yamaha (Onkyo is a big-box brand and Elite is just about finished for now). The models were in the $850 range, one Yamaha, one Denon. 22 dealers attended, mostly Denon guys since Allnet had distributed Denon forever. 21 chose the Yamaha,only one left with a Denon.
Audessey does EQ more effectively in the sub area but woofer setup and positioning can ameliorate the difference in many cases. As far as mid bass, midrange and highs, the Yamha's YPAO, a parametric EQ considered one of the better receiver on-board systems, was developed by their Pro-Sound division, the biggest in the world. It includes two sets of filters--the EQ section and RSC, their reflective sound control which analyzes room reflections and optimizes the sound in that difficult area.

To me, however, it really does help to try both in the two channel mode with no processing. That's what Allnet did and we came away preferring the Yamaha. Why not look at Marantz? It's circuitry is superior to its sister (Denon) top to bottom, yet with the same EQ. See if there's an Anthem in that price range. They too have an excellent EQ system.

The Yamha does have MusicCast (nine more wireless zones for free), a big power supply (will drive any speakers) and they do not break in general, enjoying a far superior reliability record over all Japanse (actually from any country) receivers. 3-year warranty.

I'd listen to the units, not to me or any other poster. By the way, it's impossible to compare EQ systems without listening to identical level matched ssystems using a wide variety of material and sources. You'd need to ensure the mic position is identical for both. Bottom line? EQ will not correct a dull sounding unit or one that clips harshly. Listen and decide.
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Old 03-28-2016, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalCyclist View Post
Yes Yamaha has better reliability and a better app. I don't know why Denon has been so slow with this. Also Yamaha seems to be the only one of the two making money.
Aren't new receivers due soon though for both?
Yes, both brands have new units coming so wait until they come and buy this year's discontinued unit. That's your best value. New 2050 (2060?) is due mid summer.
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Old 03-28-2016, 10:12 AM
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My major regret was purchasing a Denon over Yamaha. I have an older X4000 running a 7.2 and it runs so hot I need cooling fans. It also crackles in the speakers periodically and unpredictably and has shut off a few dozen times over the last 2 years (thermal?).

I feel like I got ripped off honestly. Everytime I find out about something dumb the receiver cannot do, it makes me more mad (eg airplay to zone 3 without having to mess with zone 1)

I also have a Denon x2000 and an Yamaha RXV 475 I use for other rooms on exact same speaker setups of multichannel stereo. The Denon runs noticeably hotter.

As far as automation, I use irule, and the Denons lose communication periodically. I never have an issue with the Yamaha.

I will never buy another Denon unless by some miracle I am contacted by Denon and they ship me a better working receiver for free. Otherwise I can't see being without it for weeks at a time and paying for repairs and shipping.

I hope my practical experience can be of some help.
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Old 03-28-2016, 10:19 AM
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Also, one other thing. My 7.2 is in a weird and open room subject to WAF. So my sub positioning is non optimal, part of the reason I got two. I bought the X4000 with the sub EQ hoping it would optimize the listening position somewhat. It works better when I manually tweak it.

I have no idea how its voodoo inside the processing chip accounts for phase or otherwise optimizes. I just know the Audessey "enhanced" listening position sucked and I was underwhelmed by the feature. I have two PSA XV15 SEs.

My expectations are probably off, but this is a real wolrd experience from somebody with a moderate budget and above average skillset. Compared to your average Best Buy consumer.
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Old 03-28-2016, 10:24 AM
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Every single installer i know in the area always recommends denon over anything else. Im curious to know how Denon gained such a popularity among installers and dealers.


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Old 03-28-2016, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XciteMe83 View Post
FINALLY I've narrowed down my receiver choices (gonna be running a Klipsch Reference Premiere setup), to either:

A) the Yamaha Aventage A2050 or

B) the Denon X4200W

Both are the same price and pack pretty much the same features

WHICH one would have the upper hand in pure insane THEATER sound (explosions and bass and punch and all that jazz)

I will not be using this for music listening (I prefer headphones for music)
You are at the point where you need to get your favorite, highest fidelity recording, and bring it into a store and listen to both on speakers similar to yours.

But, and this will require more work for you, if you look thoroughly at the manufacturer's website specs there are differences stated and maybe one of those is a deal breaker/maker for you, but you have to look into each difference you care about because specs are not all-encompassing documents. Yamaha specifically mentions having the extra bandwidth to handle HDR (will you use the receiver as an AV switch?), it doesn't mean the Denon doesn't, you just have to research it if you care about it. Denon specifically mentions having the capacity to drive 4 ohm speakers, etc., etc..

My 12 year old Denon 3805 still works great, but my second choice was a very similar Yamaha.

Going back to the first sentence here, Yamaha's claim to fame is they re-produce sound as accurately as possible for a given price range. That doesn't mean is sounds "better" than Denon however.
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Old 03-28-2016, 11:19 AM
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I have had Harmon Kardons and a couple near-top-of-the-line Denons. I now have an Anthem receiver and it sounds better than a lot of separates for 2-channel music, especially with ARC. For movies in surround it is awesome. And their room correction (which I only use below 500 Hz, although I've tried many cutoffs, all the way up to 5000 Hz) blows Audessey out of the water. Audessey always made the bass sound better, but it ruined everything else for me. I have never owned a Yamaha, but have auditioned a few, which doesn't really count. Anthem rules, in my opinion.
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Old 03-28-2016, 11:22 AM - Thread Starter
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You guys convinced me to go for the Yamaha. You guys are sickos lol, you love to punish people's wallets don't you? LOL

Question (and this IMPORTANT so please tell me, guys): If I only plan on using a 7.1 setup for the time being (my room is just too small to even think about a 9.1 setup), and I go for the RX-A1050 instead of the 2050, the ONLY thing I'm missing out on is the additional 2 channels and a little bit more power per channel, right??? I'll be saving $400 and if I'm not gonna take advantage of the 9 channel setup, is there anything else that makes the 2050 a must-buy? Sound and 4K upscaling quality will be the same, right?
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Old 03-28-2016, 11:30 AM
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Yamaha Aventage receivers vs. Denon receivers... Who takes the cake?

I have both & definitely prefer my Yamaha. Rock solid & like the DSP movie modes and sounds + better for music in my view.

My Denon is S900W and Yammie is older HTR-5860. Now looking for 9 channel AVR for .4 Atmos like many here are also; just don't like the current prices

Poster above; With the a1050 you max out at 2 overhead Atmos speakers. Based on most user reports, .4 Atmos is much better than .2


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Primary set-up 5.1.4; Yamaha A2050, Paired w/Parsound P5 Preamp & A21 amp
Revel F206 fronts & Revel M16 rears; Outlaw X12 Sub & 4 RSL C34e in-ceilings

Secondary 5.1: Denon S900W, Polks LSiM703/704C, Polk RC80i in-ceiling rears, RSL Speedwoofer 10s

Last edited by yanks1; 03-28-2016 at 11:36 AM.
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Old 03-28-2016, 12:03 PM
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Can YPAO eq dual subs independently like Audyssey? I know it has two outputs on the Aventage units, but I wasn't sure if it actually could eq them separately like Multi-eq xt32?
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