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Old 09-14-2016, 09:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Shootout - JVC RS500 (X7000) & Sony 320ES

Hey everyone,

I thought I would start this as a new thread since there will be a fair bit of info here.

Yesterday evening, Bandyka and I stacked our respective units and had a pretty good look at UHD BR material in SDR BT2020, and also we had a good look at how good MadVR up-scaling is handled by our units. The goal here was to see what the JVC can do compared with a native 4k panel when fed the best case scenario image, which I have found during my ownership is most definitely a well up-scaled 4K image or a UHD Disc.

Some notes/caveats before we get started:
  • The Sony is in need of a calibration due to slight green overtones you will see.
  • Both units are brightness matched to peak whites.
  • The Panasonic in SDR BT2020 Sony image produces some banding which has been reported before in other threads, note this is not posterisation. If you see it in the HD MadVR shots, then it is an artefact of the Sony. You should only see mild banding in UHD shots on the Sony.

With that said, I thought this data is at the very least interesting to share, don't jump on me about the colour differential, lets have a good look at resolving power. In the next couple of weeks, Bandyka and I are going to revisit this, when his unit is calibrated, this time at my house and we will take what we learned while doing this and hopefully have some even better shots for you guys. I wanted to share these with you guys in any case.

I am not going to give any opinions on the shots, I will let you guys see for yourself.

What I will say though, its the Sony is clearly limited by its lens. The 320ES has a pretty good lens sample, it resolves patterns pretty darn sharply, and there is no fringing, the pixels are easy to make out, so I would say there is nothing really wrong with the lens sample on the 320ES, However, note the barrel distortion in the lens, both units were stacked, in fact the JVC was on top, so any any lens should have distortion it should be the JVC. I think if Sony were to make some leaps with the included lenses on the 3/6XX series projectors and match JVC's brilliant lens, this would be a more clear cut shootout and the gap would be wider.

Contrast, once you are watching content above say 5% APL these units are one and the same. The JVC was only clearly ahead here on super low APL content, to which we didnt really screen shot any here, because it would not show much detail being so dark, but you guys should know, once either projector is showing any content during the day, or anything above say 5% APL, I couldnt say there was much of a difference between our units.

My JVC in order to brightness match Bandyka's unit was in low lamp with Iris - 6. This netted about 15fl on the screen with his 120" 1.1 gain or so screen from a min throw distance. So at that iris setting, I was probably cruising with about 50-60k:1? The 320ES should have been dishing out around 16k:1 from what I have read. It only really got weak in terms of contrast with fades and when the APL became low.

First, here is a Dropbox Link for the whole screen-shot dump in high res TIFF Files for those who are interested, the resolution is around 5700pixels wide. For the purpose of the screen-shot roll-overs I have had to reduce the size to 3840 so the files actually upload to that website. I encourage you guys interested in a much closer look to download the full files.

Dropbox Link

Please click through the screenshot comparison link to see the full size images and roll over feature - if they are too large for your browser you should be able to hit control-minus and the page will scale down and you can see the whole image. I wanted to keep the pics at the very least UHD size for the roll overs, if you want even bigger then download the dropbox link.

The images you see here is just really a thumbnail of sorts so you know whats on the other end of the link.

Now for the comparisons:

UHD BR SDR BT2020 - Panasonic UB900 - Enhancements ON (JVC Enhance on 2, Clear Black Low) (Sony RC 20) - All else switched off.

Lucy:


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184516


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184517


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184518


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184524


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184519


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184520


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184521


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184522


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184523

Sicario:


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184525


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184526


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184527

Star Trek Into Darkness:


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184528

UHD BR SDR BT2020 - Panasonic UB900 - Enhancements OFF

Lucy:



http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184530


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184529


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184533


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184531


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184532


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184534


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184535


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184536


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184537

Sicario:


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184540


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184539


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184538

Star Trek Into Darkness:


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184541
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Old 09-14-2016, 09:15 PM - Thread Starter
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1080P HD Bluray 1:1 Rips Super-sampled to 3840x2160 using MadVR - JVC Enhance 2 / Clear Black Low - Sony RC 20

Lucy:


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184542


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184543


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184544


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184545


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184546


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184547


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184558


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184548


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184549

Sicario:


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184550


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184551

Oblivion:


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184552


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184553


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184554


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184555

Oblivion: A close up look at Cruise's face:


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184556

1080P HD Bluray 1:1 Rips Super-sampled to 3840x2160 using MadVR - All Enhancements OFF

Lucy:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184557

Thats it for the shots for now, I totally neglected getting any shots of Samsara, I did want shots of that film, we did look at it, and what you can see in these shots its pretty much the same in Samsara. I will get shots of this when we do round two.

Oh, one more thing. Motion, we had a good look at this. I can tell you that 1080p video is identical in regards to motion, we had our screens focused as one playing the same content and both were perfectly in sync with each other. HOWEVER, when we had a look at UHD Resolution content, the JVC had considerable lag behind the speed in which the Sony rendered frames and put them to screen.

The question is, if this is similar how audio falls out of sync and it was all by the same amount, or weather the JVC was struggling to render UHD frames and falling out of sync with smooth 24p playback. The latter would explain bad motion people are experiencing when watching content, but if the video is out of sync or delayed by a stable and static figure, I dont imagine that should be affecting the motion of the video at all since its all possibly out by the same amount. I hope that makes sense.

Super frustratingly, I actually thought I had recorded about 30 seconds worth of this phenomenon on video, but in my tired state I managed to merely take two ****ty photos on my iPhone when I thought I was pushing Stop/Start record

Here are those two photos in any case, one shot shots motion, the other happens to be Scar Jo standing still, so you can get a bit of an idea how much it falls behind.



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Old 09-14-2016, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Oh, one more thing. Motion, we had a good look at this. I can tell you that 1080p video is identical in regards to motion, we had our screens focused as one playing the same content and both were perfectly in sync with each other. HOWEVER, when we had a look at UHD Resolution content, the JVC had considerable lag behind the speed in which the Sony rendered frames and put them to screen.

The question is, if this is similar how audio falls out of sync and it was all by the same amount, or weather the JVC was struggling to render UHD frames and falling out of sync with smooth 24p playback. The latter would explain bad motion people are experiencing when watching content, but if the video is out of sync or delayed by a stable and static figure, I dont imagine that should be affecting the motion of the video at all since its all possibly out by the same amount. I hope that makes sense.

Super frustratingly, I actually thought I had recorded about 30 seconds worth of this phenomenon on video, but in my tired state I managed to merely take two ****ty photos on my iPhone when I thought I was pushing Stop/Start record
I just spent 30 mins watching this scene over and over, I cannot replicate what you are seeing.

How consistent can you reproduce this? what was the video chain setup? Someone else with the same setup should try this as well. That is definitely not happening with my RS600.

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Old 09-14-2016, 09:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I just spent 30 mins watching this scene over and over, I cannot replicate what you are seeing.

How consistent can you reproduce this? what was the video chain setup? Someone else with the same setup should try this as well. That is definitely not happening with my RS600.

Maybe I needed to be more clear, you need to be stacking two projectors with both images overlaid at the same time. Only then will it show up.

Straight from the Panny UB900 in UHD res. 4K SDR BT2020.

I remember seeing the same thing long ago on my 300ES too when I had that stacked with my RS Running a UHD Desktop environment and up-scaling a film at 4k through Kodi. Its not an occurrence which is restricted to the particular setup we used.

At least with my RS500, I would be able to reproduce this any-time anywhere

Did you watch with your planar overlaid? You gotta be watching two projectors at the same time.

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Old 09-14-2016, 09:59 PM
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Ok, I see what your saying. I think it may have confused readers into thinking there was some major issues with motion with UHD content based on that specific screenshot. I think it looks great. there is tons of action in the movie and never get a sense of choppiness.

thanks for the time and effort, taking a look at some of the screen shots now.
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Old 09-14-2016, 10:04 PM

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What you're experiencing is differences in input lag, not differences in "motion". The JVC simply takes more time to process the input image when it has eshift enabled. Essentially it adds another layer (or layers) or video processing and this is what you're seeing as it lags behind. The Sony doesn't have the burden of scaling the content as the 4K input can be rendered with ease due to the panels being native 4K.

Thanks for the photos. I would say, color differences aside, I preferred the JVC in most of the images. The first image you posted you can see considerable posterization in the background of the shot. You can also see pretty bad banding added by the Sony in several of the other shots too. The one image that I think clearly shows the Sony being superior is the shot of Taipei's skyline. This shot is really the only one where it's "obvious" that the native 4K projector can render more detail. The rest of the shots look pretty much identical or slightly favoring the JVC actually. You can also see that subtle noise filtering that occurs on the Sony. You lose out on a small layer of fine detail due to the loss of that noise.

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Old 09-14-2016, 10:14 PM
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It was very consistent. The chain was UB900 to Athem AVR signal unaltered to two cables into PJs from The Anthem's two HMDI out.

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Old 09-14-2016, 10:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
What you're experiencing is differences in input lag, not differences in "motion". The JVC simply takes more time to process the input image when it has eshift enabled. Essentially it adds another layer (or layers) or video processing and this is what you're seeing as it lags behind. The Sony doesn't have the burden of scaling the content as the 4K input can be rendered with ease due to the panels being native 4K.

Thanks for the photos. I would say, color differences aside, I preferred the JVC in most of the images. The first image you posted you can see considerable posterization in the background of the shot. You can also see pretty bad banding added by the Sony in several of the other shots too. The one image that I think clearly shows the Sony being superior is the shot of Taipei's skyline. This shot is really the only one where it's "obvious" that native 4K projector can render more detail. The rest of the shots look pretty much identical or slightly favoring the JVC actually. You can also see that subtle noise filtering that occurs on the Sony. You lose out on a small layer of fine detail due to the loss of that noise.
The banding in UHD content is unfortunately a result of the Panasonic not playing nice in SDR and whatever conversions its doing and sending to the Sony, we spotted some scenes which showed considerable banding on the Sony, such as the Jellyfish shot in the beginning of Lucy, but in HDR or HD BR through the HTPC none of that banding was there, so as I listed in one of my caveats in the beginning, the banding you see in all the UHD shots should actually be taked with a grain of salt. Its unfortunate, also one reason we aim to have a look at this again in a couple weeks, see if we can get rid of that banding and take some more shots.

It is certainly not there in HDR.

If you want to see the Sony's banding and posterisation artefacts, best to be focusing on the MadVR shots.
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Old 09-14-2016, 10:17 PM

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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
The banding in UHD content is unfortunately a result of the Panasonic not playing nice in SDR and whatever conversions its doing and sending to the Sony, we spotted some scenes which showed considerable banding on the Sony, such as the Jellyfish shot in the beginning of Lucy, but in HDR or HD BR through the HTPC none of that banding was there, so as I listed in one of my caveats in the beginning, the banding you see in all the UHD shots should actually be taked with a grain of salt. Its unfortunate, also one reason we aim to have a look at this again in a couple weeks, see if we can get rid of that banding and take some more shots.

It is certainly not there in HDR.

If you want to see the Sony's banding and posterisation artefacts, best to be focusing on the MadVR shots.
The banding and posterization is even worse looking on the Sony in the MadVR shots. The first shot especially. If you look at the background to the left of ape-man's face it's disgusting mess of banding and posterization.
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Old 09-14-2016, 10:17 PM
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Also need to add that banding was only produced (well the worst of it) when the Panny player got confused by detecting two projectors but I'll jet Javs explain that.

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Old 09-14-2016, 10:21 PM

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Also need to add that banding was only produced (well the worst of it) when the Panny player got confused by detecting two projectors but I'll jet Javs explain that.
See my previous post. It's even worse on the Sony when using MadVR:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184542

Look to the left of ape-man's face. The background on the Sony is a mess with a ton of banding and posterization.
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Old 09-14-2016, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
See my previous post. It's even worse on the Sony when using MadVR:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184542

Look to the left of ape-man's face. The background on the Sony is a mess with a ton of banding and posterization.
Yeah my posts are late. Yes agree with you. However you need to look really close to see it, and its also there with the J if look hard enough but no to that extent. J is better there though no question. I'll leave this to you guys now

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Old 09-14-2016, 10:24 PM

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I suspect that the 10bit video on the UHD transfer helps here and is why it looks better through the Panasonic. The 8bit version on the regular 1080p blu-ray seems to make any issues with banding/posterization worse off.

This was really my only serious complaint about the 665ES. I really loved the image from it otherwise. The thing is, once I noticed it on the 1100ES (and 665ES) I couldn't stop noticing it. It was just one of those things I wish I never saw...ignorance is bliss.
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Old 09-14-2016, 10:26 PM
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my eyes are blinded by that green push....

these are great screenshots, nice camera work! It helps having a 30" UHD monitor to compare the screenshots.

looking closely at all the screenshots, the JVC appears to have a little more dimension to the skin textures. they look a bit flat on the Sony, maybe after a good color cal it will look more alike.


also comparing the BD to the UHD version, folks can clearly see the JVC is resolving more than 1080P. It may not be be full UHD but that's remarkably convincing using such a pristine UHD source like Lucy.
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Old 09-14-2016, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
I suspect that the 10bit video on the UHD transfer helps here and is why it looks better through the Panasonic. The 8bit version on the regular 1080p blu-ray seems to make any issues with banding/posterization worse off.

This was really my only serious complaint about the 665ES. I really loved the image from it otherwise. The thing is, once I noticed it on the 1100ES (and 665ES) I couldn't stop noticing it. It was just one of those things I wish I never saw...ignorance is bliss.
Is this what you were seeing on the 665?

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Old 09-14-2016, 10:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
What you're experiencing is differences in input lag, not differences in "motion". The JVC simply takes more time to process the input image when it has eshift enabled. Essentially it adds another layer (or layers) or video processing and this is what you're seeing as it lags behind. The Sony doesn't have the burden of scaling the content as the 4K input can be rendered with ease due to the panels being native 4K.
Yep, I don't dispute this, I did say though that if this lag of processing is somehow delayed even slightly and not a perfectly consistent lag, it could affect how we perceive motion.

I can tell you that Capt America Civil War, the scene in the beginning where black widow is fighting a few guys in the shanty market area, and there is a ton of shallow shutter filming going on, the Sony utterly killed the JVC for motion handling in this scene, I am jarred by it on my JVC when I watch that scene which is unusual, I was thinking the film makers went way too far on the shallow shutter effect there, but on the Sony it appeared to be fine. They must have used a 45degree angle on the shutter on something, I cant name anything I have ever seen which goes quite as far as that scene does with that. As such its a really tough test for any projectors motion rendering.

Apart from that scene I am very happy with motion on my JVC. I got no issues at all with it apart from that one observation. First thing we did yesterday is check out that scene, and the Sony just rendered it far smoother (At 24p no FI) than the JVC was able to.

The only thing I can come up with, and I have shown it in pictures is perhaps the lag or motion handling is such that the output of frames is not absolutely perfectly consistent in 4k at all times. Even if its thrown out by 0.1ms its enough to throw you off the motion smoothness. The fact that such lag is there means that the unit doesn't have enough processing power. If it did, it would have less input lag.
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Old 09-14-2016, 10:42 PM

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Is this what you were seeing on the 665?
Yes, that was in the image of the 665ES. Compare these three zones between the two. The bottom two is obvious banding and the top big box is obvious posterization. Notice how that doesn't happen on the JVC? This is what I noticed constantly on the both the 1100ES and 665ES when I had them here. It drove me nuts. I couldn't not see it. And it occurred frequently. The jackoffs in the 1000ES thread labeled me a "Sony hater" and "child" because I brought up the issue.

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184542

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Old 09-14-2016, 10:43 PM - Thread Starter
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I suspect that the 10bit video on the UHD transfer helps here and is why it looks better through the Panasonic. The 8bit version on the regular 1080p blu-ray seems to make any issues with banding/posterization worse off.

This was really my only serious complaint about the 665ES. I really loved the image from it otherwise. The thing is, once I noticed it on the 1100ES (and 665ES) I couldn't stop noticing it. It was just one of those things I wish I never saw...ignorance is bliss.
We definitely couldn't see that in all its glory from the chair, had to get up and go up close to the screen. But its a strange trade-off when you think about each unit and their quirks.

10Bit HDR when we had only the Sony plugged in looks far better in terms of banding. I think there is an issue with the Panny and SDR tone mapping with the Sony, perhaps we needed to vary the output settings, deep colour off, I cant remember if we had that on for eg.

You could be right that the shot there in Lucy 1080p just naturally contains some banding. On the JVC it has super subtle banding in that same area but nowhere near as pronounced.

Its an off trade-off, you have the Sony with some mild banding and posterisation, and then you have the JVC E-Shift noise which was super apparent with some content, both of which are only really seen super close up, the JVC probably still visible from the chair. We also noticed bulb flicker though ever so slight on the JVC, the Sony just rendered incredibly calm images, when paused if you look at the edge of a building for eg, the JVC would very slightly shimmer, the Sony was just still.
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Old 09-14-2016, 10:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, that was in the image of the 665ES. Compare these three zones between the two. The bottom two is obvious banding and the top big box is obvious posterization. Notice how that doesn't happen on the JVC? This is what I noticed constantly on the both the 1100ES and 665ES when I had them here. It drove me nuts. I couldn't not see it. And it occurred frequently. The jackoffs in the 1000ES labled me a "Sony hater" and "child" because I brought up the issue.

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184542
Yeah its interesting, coloured gradients like that sure are a difficult test to render due to there being literally millions of colours to be able to cleanly show that gradient.

I just double checked my RAW images and the full uncompressed TIFF's

I do still see that banding and posterisation in that shot in every Sony image we did in both UHD SDR and HD, and its pretty much not there on the JVC, no disputing that.

I think I need to do this again in a couple of weeks with only one projector plugged in, this time we plan to do it at my place, so what we can be sure if is the variables will change in terms of the signal chain, and if the artefacts are still there we can tick the box and say its 100% a permanent occurrence in all content. Its only fair to have a look again under different circumstances to see if the issue still persists on my gear vs Bandy's. I certainly didn't think it would be that pronounced in the image comparison. I could say that maybe the images being 8bit themselves contributed to the banding showing up worse in the screenshots, but that doest not explain why the JVC doesnt show it practically at all, its there on the JVC but it honestly I think its Jpeg compression at that point.

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Old 09-14-2016, 10:53 PM

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We definitely couldn't see that in all its glory from the chair, had to get up and go up close to the screen. But its a strange trade-off when you think about each unit and their quirks.

10Bit HDR when we had only the Sony plugged in looks far better in terms of banding. I think there is an issue with the Panny and SDR tone mapping with the Sony, perhaps we needed to vary the output settings, deep colour off, I cant remember if we had that on for eg.

You could be right that the shot there in Lucy 1080p just naturally contains some banding. On the JVC it has super subtle banding in that same area but nowhere near as pronounced.

Its an off trade-off, you have the Sony with some mild banding and posterisation, and then you have the JVC E-Shift noise which was super apparent with some content, both of which are only really seen super close up, the JVC probably still visible from the chair. We also noticed bulb flicker though ever so slight on the JVC, the Sony just rendered incredibly calm images, when paused if you look at the edge of a building for eg, the JVC would very slightly shimmer, the Sony was just still.
Definitely some trade offs with both units. Eshift does add some mild noise and you can see some flicker. What I will say is that (hopefully next year) when we see a native 4K model from JVC at a similar price or lower to the 320ES it will fix both issues. The noise and flicker from the eshift process will obviously be gone as the native 4k unit won't have eshift. With those two issues out of the way, where does that leave Sony with the issues I've brought up? These issues have been there since 2011 when the 1000ES first came out. Are we expecting Sony to fully resolve them next year or the year after when new 4K SXRD units come out even though they haven't over the past 5+ years now? It's a good question to ask ones-self if they were in the market looking at two separate native 4K projectors.
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Old 09-14-2016, 10:53 PM - Thread Starter
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These are screengrabs from my RAW file just for 1080p MadVR Shots. The JVC still exhibits banding if you look really close, but its certainly not significant.

Sony:



JVC:


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Old 09-14-2016, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
We definitely couldn't see that in all its glory from the chair, had to get up and go up close to the screen. But its a strange trade-off when you think about each unit and their quirks.

10Bit HDR when we had only the Sony plugged in looks far better in terms of banding. I think there is an issue with the Panny and SDR tone mapping with the Sony, perhaps we needed to vary the output settings, deep colour off, I cant remember if we had that on for eg.

l.
Which is why we need to do round two, and by then the S will be properly calibrated. I didn't realize a few hundred hours of use would throw out color balance this much. I was impressed by both units TBH.
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Old 09-14-2016, 11:03 PM

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I think there's a slight bit of banding in the source. Remember that the video is only 8 bit and dithering can onlyt do so much. I took this direct from the 1080p bluray frame and slightly scaled it:

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Old 09-14-2016, 11:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Definitely some trade offs with both units. Eshift does add some mild noise and you can see some flicker. What I will say is that (hopefully next year) when we see a native 4K model from JVC at a similar price or lower to the 320ES it will fix both issues. The noise and flicker from the eshift process will obviously be gone as the native 4k unit won't have eshift. With those two issues out of the way, where does that leave Sony with the issues I've brought up? These issues have been there since 2011 when the 1000ES first came out. Are we expecting Sony to fully resolve them next year or the year after when new 4K SXRD units come out even though they haven't over the past 5+ years now? It's a good question to ask ones-self if they were in the market looking at two separate native 4K projectors.
Agree here. If the JVC had far lower input lag and a native panel, considering we are getting images this good and so close to a native projector at a lower price point, scary to imagine if Sony hasn't fixed these issues by next year when J starts dropping 4k units for under $10k there is going to be some answering to do on behalf of Sony.

I personally really didn't expect the JVC to get just this close to the Sony with native UHD BR content. It was seriously seriously close, I had thought this to myself since getting MadVR going on my JVC, I was sure that the image I was seeing definitely rivalled and possibly surpassed my old 300ES, and I think I was right. Especially since Bandy bought that 300 off me and when he got his new 320ES home he reported significant sharpness improvements over that old unit. So its good to see my RS500 playing and most certainly keeping up with the 320ES.

I think these images are softer than what we were seeing and that's my fault, I need to work on the photography. Add about 20% overall sharpness and that's more in line with what we saw from both units in person, both of them frankly looked pretty spectacular. Its certainly a great time to own a projector for us HT Geeks.
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Old 09-14-2016, 11:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Its pretty interesting that the closest these two units get to matching the sharpness of each other is in all the UHD BR shots with all enhancements off IMO.

The Sony with RC on in UHD seems to have a slightly negative affect on the paper texture in this shot, could also be the noise filtering going on which thinks this is actually noise and not texture that is supposed to be there:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184521

The rendering of the papers texture is diminished, The JVC seems to render the actual paper texture better here in both shots actually, although it does add some noise to the enhanced shot for sure.

Both shots here though with all enhancements off, look far closer to each other with the paper texture:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184535
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Old 09-14-2016, 11:32 PM
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Yep both are great. The S needs a better lens and the J needs a true panel.
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Old 09-15-2016, 05:02 AM
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Thanks for the shootout guys :-)

I will not repeat what other have already report but I can add that on some of the JVC shot you can see some sharpening double line effect.

For example the window in the building shot or the electric wire on top of the house of the Sicario shot.

Also, like other report, I can see more noise in the JVC shot.

Having say that, it's impressive how similar those shot look. No night and day difference here and depending how big and how closer you sit from your screen those difference will be more or less visible. We have to give a lot of credit to JVC to put out such a great projector at that price point.
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Old 09-15-2016, 05:47 AM
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Since the forum is US based, keep in mind the street price of the JVC RS500 is 1/2 the Sony SURE pricing of the base 4K model, and 1/3 the cost of the mid-range VW665/VW675.

remarkable effort considering they are still technically only 1080P projectors and still gets best in class native contrast, something that was very evident in my velvet HT room when comparing my VW1100 vs. the RS600.

Thank you guys both for taking the time and sharing your findings.
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Old 09-15-2016, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Its pretty interesting that the closest these two units get to matching the sharpness of each other is in all the UHD BR shots with all enhancements off IMO.

The Sony with RC on in UHD seems to have a slightly negative affect on the paper texture in this shot, could also be the noise filtering going on which thinks this is actually noise and not texture that is supposed to be there:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184521

The rendering of the papers texture is diminished, The JVC seems to render the actual paper texture better here in both shots actually, although it does add some noise to the enhanced shot for sure.

Both shots here though with all enhancements off, look far closer to each other with the paper texture:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184535

Javs and Bandyka - Very nice shootout


Please try this next time on the Sony.
You can have more fine patterns, resolve more, and no moire on 1:1 pixel patterns.
I found out this on the VW520 -

It turns out that in the service menu there is a zone correction for convergence and chromatic error in panels and lens.
If this correction is switched off, the VW520 looks much better on these test patterns.
I think that Sony has chosen to correct chromatic error in the lens forward to show 1:1 pattern correctly.

In the service menu under "Panel Driver" there is a line 21 "21 AREG/SERVICE ON" It is set to "1" change this with the left arrow key to "0".
You can choose to save your settings under "Save to memory".
If you do not choose to save and just leave the service menu, this point is set back to "1" next time you turn on the projector.
Check now your line pattern, the color moiré should be gone.
If not, check under "panel alignment" Set this to "Preset" in the user menu.
If you wish to correct your panels, adjust in whole +/- 10, it corresponds to one pixel shift.
You can also choose to adjust in 1-2 steps, this will cause some moire, but not nearly as bad as before.


It could be fun to see, if it makes any difference on the fine details.
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Old 09-15-2016, 05:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Since the forum is US based, keep in mind the street price of the JVC RS500 is 1/2 the Sony SURE pricing of the base 4K model, and 1/3 the cost of the mid-range VW665/VW675.

remarkable effort considering they are still technically only 1080P projectors and still gets best in class native contrast, something that was very evident in my velvet HT room when comparing my VW1100 vs. the RS600.

Thank you guys both for taking the time and sharing your findings.
No probs mate, our pleasure. It was fun just for the two of us to have a good look in any case! It certainly looked a whole lot closer. You need to pixel peep these images to see the difference!

If the E-Shift noise was not there, I could have done blind tests at one point, and hand on heart neither of us would have known which was which if colour was identical on both (Calibrated).

We were sitting in the 4K viewing cone too. For sure.

That's a pretty darn significant price differential! I am not sure the value is there on the screen to be honest to justify jumping up to the Sony and paying an extra 100% of the RS500's value.

Here in Australia both of these units are about the same street price.

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