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Screens > New alr screen options to rival the Screen Innovations Black Diamond
LumensLover 06:56 AM 06-14-2017
Looking for those who own other ALR screens outside of Screen Innovations to post pictures or let us hear about their experiences with other alr materials.

The S.I. Black Diamond has been the most well known alr screen for some time now. However they are overpriced, and the screen industry has had ten years to catch up with them using cheaper, more cost effective designs.

LumensLover 07:10 AM 06-14-2017
Draper



Draper has released several new Tecvision alr materials. They are MS1000X 1 gain, the XH700X .7 gain and the XH900X .9 gain alr screens. The .7 and .9 gains offer a wide viewing axis. All of the aforementioned Tecvision screens are ISF certified.
LumensLover 07:18 AM 06-14-2017
Seymour AV

Seymour Matinee Black tested as well or better than the S.I. Black Diamond in various tests posted under Projector Central's alr screen shootout. This material truly seems like a unknown diamond in the rough in my opinion.

It is priced very competitively at a mere fraction of a S.I Black Diamond screen. It actually best the Black Diamond in a side illumination test in the alr shootout. It's only flaw is it has a narrow horizontal viewing cone. However for narrow media rooms,I believe this screen would be perfect.
LumensLover 07:24 AM 06-14-2017
Falcon Vision

Falcon Vision Titanium 1 gain alr screen. This is a brand new alr material from Falcon. Not much else is known about it.
Hawkmarket's Avatar Hawkmarket 08:47 AM 06-14-2017
Projector Central did an entire article about this very topic. A good read.




http://projectorcentral.com/ambi...-screens-2.htm
Ftoast's Avatar Ftoast 10:15 AM 06-14-2017
DarkEnergy Abyss 0.9 performs more like SI Slate 0.8 than any of their BlackDiamond screens, but the price is much less than Slate.

The SI Slate0.8 is on the left and DE Abyss on the right in all four pictures


What's the rough price-range of the Seymour AV Matinee Black at 100" 16:9?
LumensLover 01:45 PM 06-14-2017
Quote:
Originally Posted by ftoast View Post

what's the rough price-range of the seymour av matinee black at 100" 16:9?
$700
Ftoast's Avatar Ftoast 02:53 PM 06-14-2017
I believe that beats the DE Abyss by a healthy margin.

Looking back at the PJC comparison/review the MB looks like a great aggressive screen, considering that price..wow.

Now I'm trying to find the comparison I re-read a few days ago between the Seymour AV MB and MS and a very similar material by someone else which I can't remember.
If someone else's memory is fairing any better, please blurt that name and a rough idea of how its pricing compares to the Seymour AV ALR screens.

Between Carl'sALR and the Elite CineGrey DCSeries, the somewhat lighter+brighter Slate1.2 territory is already covered by some VERY affordable competition, but finding screens/materials more in line with the overall darker Slate0.8 and BlackDiamond mixes well under $1000 seems quite a bit harder for now.
That AV MB price-range is great news.
LumensLover 01:13 PM 06-17-2017
Since no one on online-shashki has ever posted an experience with a Seymour Matinee Black screen, I will be the guinnea pig. I sold my 106 S.I. Black Diamond screen today.

I am going to purchase a 114" or 120" Seymour AV Matinee Black screen on monday. Projector will be located fifteen feet away from the screen. Still deciding on going with another Sony HW45ES or pay more for a JVC RS400.
Ftoast's Avatar Ftoast 01:29 PM 06-17-2017
I look forward to hearing your thoughts about them.

This thread Elite Cinegrey vs Seymour Silver vs SI Slate
has a great comparison between Matinee Black and Ambient Visionaire Black, but I didn't see anyone directly comparing either with the SI BD nor slate 0.8 (though I could've missed it).

Are the Matinee Black and AV black merged now?
LumensLover 01:15 AM 06-18-2017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
I look forward to hearing your thoughts about them.

This thread Elite Cinegrey vs Seymour Silver vs SI Slate
has a great comparison between Matinee Black and Ambient Visionaire Black, but I didn't see anyone directly comparing either with the SI BD nor slate 0.8 (though I could've missed it).

Are the Matinee Black and AV black merged now?
Seymour Screen Excellence sells the Ambient Visionaire materials while Seymour AV sells the Matinee Black. Seymour Screen Excellence is their high end brand while Seymour AV is their budget brand.

The only major difference between the Ambient Visionaire and the Matinee Black seems to be the horizontal viewing axis. AlR properties between the two seem to be identical.
LumensLover 10:17 PM 06-30-2017
I received 123" Darkstar 1.4 gain screen from Elite Prime Vision this week. I would like to say the Darkstar 1.4 material SMOKES the Black Diamond in every way possible.

It is brighter, holds black levels better with ambient light in room, less screen artifacts, better image fidelity, and has much better color accuracy.

Image has more depth and the colors really pop with this screen. With that being said, I must also admit that the frame that comes with this screen is pure garbage.

And Elite Prime Vision's customer service is downright horrible. I owned a Elite Screens Aeon screen a few years ago and the frame it came with was pure garbage also.

The cheapy special edition screen Elite Prime Vision sent me has no way to tension the screen into a flat, non wavy position. EPV sent a number of cheap plastic clips to attach the screen material to the frame.

I am trying to see if I can get a custom frame made for the material where I can wrap it around the outside of the frame for the zero edge look. If I can't get that done, I will have to return the screen material and frame which would be a real shame.

I just don't understand Elite Screens. They have some of the best ambient light rejecting materials available, yet their frames are by far the worst I've ever owned.

This is why I much prefer one piece screens that come fully assembled.
LumensLover 01:10 PM 07-09-2017
Elite Screens and Elite Prime Vision's customer service is atrocious. I have decided to return the Darkstar 1.4 material and piece of ***** frame tomorrow. I have learned my lesson and I will never, ever do business with Elite Screens again.

So I am back in the alr screen market again. My last two options are the Seymour Matinee Black or another Black Diamond zero edge screen. I hate to buy another Screen Innovations zero edge screen however their build quality is light years ahead of most screen manufacturers.

I have come to HATE screens which must be assembled.
LumensLover 05:04 PM 07-11-2017
I had to go to my bank for a chargeback to get my refund from the crooks at Elite Screens. I have no idea how they remain in business. Their customer service is beyond horrible.

Their sales reps don't answer the phone or they will ignore your calls when you have an issue. They have no idea what inventory they have in their warehouses. Their frames are irregular and each come with some sort of flaw.

They have no quality control so no one checks to see if their screen materials fit the frames being sent out with them. I really, REALLY ****ING HATE THIS COMPANY.

Thank goodness I don't live near any of their offices because I am to the point of dropping blows on their incompetent, cowardly staff who avoid dealing with their own **** ups.
Ftoast's Avatar Ftoast 05:44 PM 07-11-2017
Here's to hoping that excellent Darkstar material makes its way to the DesignerCutSeries so folks can buy it around $100-$200 from a wider assortment of sellers and clip, bungee, staple or ScreenTite it onto a nicer frame of some sort.

Have you already compared the DarkStar 1.4 with the MatineeBlack? Is the DS retro-reflective while the MB is angular-reflective..or am I thinking of a different Elite material?
LumensLover 06:25 PM 07-11-2017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
Here's to hoping that excellent Darkstar material makes its way to the DesignerCutSeries so folks can buy it around $100-$200 from a wider assortment of sellers and clip, bungee, staple or ScreenTite it onto a nicer frame of some sort.

Have you already compared the DarkStar 1.4 with the MatineeBlack? Is the DS retro-reflective while the MB is angular-reflective..or am I thinking of a different Elite material?
Yeah Elite Crooks should transfer their business model to selling materials only. Their frames are the worst in the business. But, whomever is designing their alr materials has real talent.

I am placing my order for the Seymour Matinee Black screen tomorrow. I am going to play with some screen sizes tonight to see if I prefer a 115" image vs. 110" image. I am no longer interested in large screens. A smaller screen should have a bright, sharp picture. Seymour screen frames look to be of high quality and easy to assemble.

I will report back with my thoughts on the Matinee Black's performance vs the Darkstar 1.4 and the Black Diamond 1.4. This time I am firmly going for image fidelity as my main priority so I might even go down to a 103" screen.
swargolet's Avatar swargolet 07:14 AM 07-14-2017
Looks like FToast actually posted my thread when I was looking around for a screen. I have been very happy with my Serymour Seymour Ambient Visionnaire 1.3 screen. The material is of high quality and the frame is excellent. I ended up custom ordering a 4 piece Precision frame (usually comes in 6 pieces) which is/was their lower end frame with their Premier being their higher end frame. Even being their lower end frame, it went together extremely well and I've had zero issues with it.

When doing the comparisons on the different Seymour materials, in every test I did, the Matinee Black performed identically to their higher end AV 1.2 material. So much so, that I have a feeling that they accidentally gave me two of the same material. Either way, both materials were fantastic at ambient light rejecting but suffered from hot spotting and poor viewing angles. This was made worse due to my lower throw ratio, so if you have a higher one >1.8x then those materials would be awesome.

I had a chance to see both the Slate and Black Diamond screens at a dealer near me and I was not impressed one bit. They looked extremely dull, had abysmal viewing angles, and hot spotted quite a bit. They reminded me of those old projection TVs.
LumensLover 11:50 AM 07-17-2017
I purchased a 109" Seymour Matinee Black screen with precision frame today, I should receive it in about a week. I will come back and post my thoughts on it after I have it assembled and on the wall.
LumensLover 05:44 PM 07-24-2017
Screen has shipped. Matinee Black screen is scheduled to be delivered on Wednesday.
LumensLover 03:59 PM 07-26-2017
Assembled the Seymour screen and placed it on the wall. I must admit I am underwhelmed. It has fairly solid alr capability.

Blacks are solid but not great. However the image fidelity is not quite as good as the Darkstar 1.4 in my opinion. Black levels are not quite as good as the Black Diamond with low levels of ambient light from side windows in room.

I will be returning this product. At this point I am tired of assembling screens. I will be going back to one piece assembled screen from Screen Innovations, DNP, or Stewart.
chriscmore's Avatar chriscmore 04:37 PM 07-26-2017
So the screen doesn't have "Vertical and horizontal banding on screen"?

Cheers,
Chris
LumensLover 05:48 PM 07-26-2017
Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscmore View Post
So the screen doesn't have "Vertical and horizontal banding on screen"?

Cheers,
Chris
It has vertical and horizontal banding along with six grommet bands which broke while the screen material was being attached. I could go on, but I am trying to be nice.

If you want me to go deeper based on what you have read on my return form in a public forum I can definitely do that.
LumensLover 06:34 PM 07-26-2017
Nightime impressions of screen with two wall mounted lamps with 40 watt bulbs are much more positive. No daylight in room now, only ambient light from lamps in room.

Matinee black material rejects light from sides much better than Black Diamond. I would put them at a near tie for rejecting light from overhead however it appears the Seymour has slightly deeper black levels with direct overhead light coming from ceiling fan.

Color saturation is excellent. Image quality with bluray movies is very, very good. There did seem to be slightly less color bias with the Darkstar 1.4 material.

I dont have black out curtains at this time. Only mini blinds. I was expecting better performance during daytime however I know even low levels of daylight is tough on a alr screen.

All in all, this is a really good screen. However I am not pleased with the nondurable rubber rings which easily break when attaching material to screen. I am also not happy about small ripples across the screen due to looseness in screen material.

The looseness in the screen material has continued after I attached all grommet rings and I had to go buy heavy duty bands to replace the o rings which broke.
MJ DOOM's Avatar MJ DOOM 06:38 PM 07-26-2017
Any comparison to Cinegrey 3D?
chriscmore's Avatar chriscmore 06:42 PM 07-26-2017
Quote:
Originally Posted by LumensLover View Post
Nightime impressions of screen with two wall mounted lamps with 40 watt bulbs are much more positive. No daylight in room now, only ambient light from lamps in room.

Matinee black material rejects light from sides much better than Black Diamond. I would put them at a near tie for light rejecting from overhead light however It appearsbthe Seymour has slightly deeper black levels with direct overhead light from ceiling fan.

Color saturation is excellent. Image quality with bluray movies is very, very good. Though there did seem to be slightly less color bias with the Darkstar 1.4 material.

I dont have black out curtains at this time. Only mini blinds. I was expecting better performance during daytime however I know even low levels of daylight is tough on alr screen.

All in all, this is a really good screen. However I am not pleased with nondurable rubber rings which easily break when attaching material to screen. I am also not happy about small ripples across the screen due to looseness in screen material.

Even after I attached all grommet rings and I had to go buy heavy duty bands to replace the o rings which broke.
Four extra bands are provided for just such occasions, although if you use the hex key to attach the rings it's much easier with less breakage. Secondly, under the ten year warranty we always replace any and all bands if needed, so no such "nondurable" worries need apply. Thirdly, we supply a handful of zip ties to tighten any spots that need more ooph.

Other than mechanical fastening within the installation I'm unsure of how banding can occur. The material can take 24hrs to relax, but the substrate on your screen starts off quite rigid and can withstand any cranking on the grommets you have the strength or willpower to do.

Go as deeply and unkind as you wish. I don't put my name on things to be coddled.

Cheers,
Chris
LumensLover 06:44 PM 07-26-2017
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ DOOM View Post
Any comparison to Cinegrey 3D?
Seymour Matinee Black is superior to Cinegrey 3d in terms of rejecting ambient light from sides and overhead. Cinegrey 3D is brighter. However Seymour Matinee black retains deeper black levels with better color saturation.

Cinegrey 3d does admirable job at rejecting overhead light. However it does not retain black levels well with ambient light coming from side.
LumensLover 07:17 PM 07-26-2017
Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscmore View Post
Four extra bands are provided for just such occasions, although if you use the hex key to attach the rings it's much easier with less breakage. Secondly, under the ten year warranty we always replace any and all bands if needed, so no such "nondurable" worries need apply. Thirdly, we supply a handful of zip ties to tighten any spots that need more ooph.

Other than mechanical fastening within the installation I'm unsure of how banding can occur. The material can take 24hrs to relax, but the substrate on your screen starts off quite rigid and can withstand any cranking on the grommets you have the strength or willpower to do.

Go as deeply and unkind as you wish. I don't put my name on things to be coddled.

Cheers,
Chris
I did not receive any zip ties. I do not intend on being unkind. Your company is a good company with excellent customer service. Everyone I talked to on the phone was very kind and nice.

I try to be as honest as possible when I post my thoughts about a product online. The Seymour Matinee Black material is a very good product. With that being said I have no interest in going the extra mile to fix screen issues.

I followed all directions for assembly and I used all accesories provided to me. My task as a customer ends there.
LumensLover 08:48 PM 07-26-2017
I also want to state I had no issues with viewing angles on the Matinee Black material. I saw no visual drop in brightness when viewing the screen from extreme angles.

I also saw no drop in brightness from any of my seats. The concerns over a narrow horizontal viewing cone with this screen were overblown in my opinion.
LumensLover 10:29 PM 07-26-2017
A quick breakdown of the top screens I have owned:

Brightness
DNP 2.7
Silverstar
Matinee Silver(sample)
Darkstar 1.4
Slate 1.2
Cingrey 5D

Black level in low to zero ambient light
DNP .8
Black Diamond 1.4
Darkstar 1.4
Seymour Matinee Black

Ambient light rejecting side
DNP .8
Seymour Matinee Black
Black Diamond 1.4

Ambient light rejecting overhead
DNP .8
Seymour Matinee Black
Black Diamond 1.4

Image fidelity
DNP .8
Darkstar 1.4
Slate 1.2
Firehawk
Black Diamond/Matinee Black

Color Accuracy
DNP .8
Darkstar 1.4
Seymour Matinee Black
LumensLover 10:40 PM 07-26-2017
The fact is the Seymour Matinee Black equals or best the Black Diamond in just about every category I can think of is amazing. It shows the alr niche market has caught up with the Black Diamond.

It also shows Screen Innovations should be ashamed of the inflated prices they continue to charge for their screens. The only thing I will concede to Screen Innovations is the excellent build quality of their one piece screens.

I can't explain why their .8 and 1.4 screens hold black levels in low levels of daylight coming from side windows better than any other alr screen Ive owned.
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