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Old 04-23-2014, 07:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi All,

I am new here and I really need some help from some smart people. My boyfriend would normally do all of this stuff for me but I am no longer with him, so trying to figure this all out on my own.

I am aiming to hook up my Pioneer VSX-1123-k with HDMI cables from my direct TV box to my my Samsung PN60F5500. A Blu-ray player will soon be added also.

The Direct TV box goes to HDMI 2 on the receiver and The receiver itself is connected to the TV via HDMI out 1 and goes into the HDMI 2 ARC input on the TV.

I eventually got the cables, TV, direct TV box, and Receiver to to sync up but when I turned everything off via one remote and then turned it on again, the receiver stays on The HDMI 2 Direct TV box source for a few seconds and then switches to TV. So I have to switch it back to satellite input on the receiver remote every time. Not only this, but then the sound reverts back to the TV speakers and I have to go into the TV menu and select "Receiver" every time.

This whole thing is driving me nuts and makes me want to pull my hair out but I don't want to be a bald girl!

I might just go back to using RCA cables, but really want the HDMI setup.

I hope this all makes sense. Please, please help if you can.

Thank you,

Sophie.
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Old 04-23-2014, 09:00 PM
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ARC/CEC is a problem for a lot of folks because of the inconsistent way ARC is implemented across various mfrs. All of your devices need to be ARC capable for it to work so check to see if that is true. If it is, and you still can't get a single remote to work, then I would disable ARC on all of your devices and try a programmable remote.
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Old 04-23-2014, 09:11 PM
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What you are dealing with is not ARC issues, but HDMI CEC issues. Consumer Electronics Code (CEC) or HDMI Control or any number of other names allows for the various HDMI products to automatically power on/off and configure themselves based upon what is currently on/off with your system.

Oh, and it doesn't actually work.

HDMI CEC was not clearly spelled out, and will never be. Because HDMI is extremely short sighted, when HDMI CEC is on, things act weird. One remote does a lot, but doesn't, and can't be programmed to do what you want, it does what IT wants, which makes it completely useless, and will continue to make it completely useless forever.

Turn off HDMI control and nothing will do 'random' things automatically. Instead, you will need to use multiple remotes to get things powered on, but they will power on properly.

The end game should be a good universal remote which does all the powering on and off for you, by using that one remote. It will control the various devices properly and accurately 100% of the time. It eliminates frustration and makes things very easy to use.

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Old 04-24-2014, 02:17 AM
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The problem with CEC (Consumer Electronics Control) channel is that it requires a bit of setup by the User as many manufacturers have concentrated on how they implement it in an ‘own brand’ environment.

For many TV’s you have to enable CEC to then access the ARC functionality of the TV – so if you want ARC you may have to have CEC enabled.

Have you checked the AVR settings to see if it is set to default to HDMI2?

How does the system react if you connect the STB to HDMI1 on the AVR instead?

Any time you are making a physical change to the HDMI connectivity it is best to power all of the kit off at the mains – I would also do the same if you choose to disable CEC on one or more devices, make the settings change then power cycle all devices.

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Old 04-24-2014, 08:48 AM
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Sorry, I wasn't very clear but yes, this is a CEC issue and not ARC. I should have read again before I hit the Submit button. Thanks for the clarification guys.
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Old 04-24-2014, 01:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys for all the replies. Haven't had a chance to try a few different things or check settings but wanted to ask you all this......

When everything is switched on, is it normal that I have to go into the TV menu and switch from TV speakers to receiver every single time to sync it? That is getting old real quick. Should it not just stay on the receiver setting in the TV menu? I think things would be running okay if so.

Also, if I were to get a universal remote, would everything still be connected by HDMI to the receiver or go back to HDMI to the TV and the RCA cables?

Sorry to sound dumb, just not smart with all of this.

Thanks for the help so far!

Sophie.
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Old 04-24-2014, 01:32 PM
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Sophie,

Are you trying to use the TV speakers for anything? Generally I just turn my TV volume all the way down, and the receiver passes audio out to my good speakers (always) and then the receiver just passes video on to the TV.

If you intend to use your TV speakers for anything, then the A/V receiver needs CEC to be on with the TV and the receiver so the receiver knows when it is powered 'off' to pass audio on to the TV.

If you never intend to use ARC or have audio pass to the TV while the receiver is off, then turning off CEC should fix this issue.

Right now, it sounds like when the A/V receiver is powered off, it switches the mode of things so that it passes audio on to the TV and the TV recognizes this incoming audio and turns the internal speakers on.

This is NOT standardized or explained anywhere. It's a guess on my part as to how it is working.

By turning off CEC, you lose certain ARC and audio pass-through features that are only available by keeping CEC on. There is no button on the remote, or in the menu setup, that I've heard of, which enables these features. Actually, Pioneer is unique in that CEC must be on to allow audio pass through while the A/V receiver is powered off. Denon, by comparison, allows you to simply setup your audio pass through source in the menu of the A/V receiver, and gives you an option to disable that function if you want. All menu driven instead of 'magic CEC' driven.

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Old 04-24-2014, 02:06 PM
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Ok, here's a silly question but do you have separate speakers attached to your Pioneer or are the only speakers you have on the Samsung? If you have separate speakers (a 5.1 system for example), I would run everything thru the Pioneer via HDMI. Disable ARC/CEC on all of your devices. Run a single HDMI cable to your tv and a single optical cable from your tv to the receiver. Turn off the tv's speakers. Get a programmable universal remote (Harmony for example). That way, all audio is played thru the receiver and only video is sent to the tv. If you use the SmartApps etc on the tv, then the audio will be sent via the optical cable back to the receiver. The Harmony remote can be programmed to automatically select the correct input(s) for what ever source you want to use, i.e. cable, blu-ray player, etc.

If the only speakers you have are the tv's speakers, that's a bit more challenging and I'll let someone else tackle that one.
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Old 04-24-2014, 02:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post

Sophie,

Are you trying to use the TV speakers for anything? Generally I just turn my TV volume all the way down, and the receiver passes audio out to my good speakers (always) and then the receiver just passes video on to the TV.

If you intend to use your TV speakers for anything, then the A/V receiver needs CEC to be on with the TV and the receiver so the receiver knows when it is powered 'off' to pass audio on to the TV.

If you never intend to use ARC or have audio pass to the TV while the receiver is off, then turning off CEC should fix this issue.

Right now, it sounds like when the A/V receiver is powered off, it switches the mode of things so that it passes audio on to the TV and the TV recognizes this incoming audio and turns the internal speakers on.

This is NOT standardized or explained anywhere. It's a guess on my part as to how it is working.

By turning off CEC, you lose certain ARC and audio pass-through features that are only available by keeping CEC on. There is no button on the remote, or in the menu setup, that I've heard of, which enables these features. Actually, Pioneer is unique in that CEC must be on to allow audio pass through while the A/V receiver is powered off. Denon, by comparison, allows you to simply setup your audio pass through source in the menu of the A/V receiver, and gives you an option to disable that function if you want. All menu driven instead of 'magic CEC' driven.

Thanks for the help. I don't intend to use my TV speakers for anything if I can help it. I tried to set up ARC CEC because I thought I was going to be easy. Foolish me.

So if I turn "off" CEC on the receiver and TV, I have to get an optical cable for the TV to the Receiver? Would I move the HDMI cable that currently goes from the receiver to TVHDMI 2 ARC input to The HDMI 1 of the TV.

Also to complicate things I really also want to set up my new Samsung Blu-Ray player. Would I switch CEC off on that but still link it to the BD input on the receiver. I will be using the Blu-Ray player for listening to CDs a lot also. Will the HDMI cable b best for the audio or do I need an optical for that also. This could cause a problem as the receiver only has one optical input.

I'm getting so confused, but really appreciate the help. I'll get there in the end!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

Ok, here's a silly question but do you have separate speakers attached to your Pioneer or are the only speakers you have on the Samsung? If you have separate speakers (a 5.1 system for example), I would run everything thru the Pioneer via HDMI. Disable ARC/CEC on all of your devices. Run a single HDMI cable to your tv and a single optical cable from your tv to the receiver. Turn off the tv's speakers. Get a programmable universal remote (Harmony for example). That way, all audio is played thru the receiver and only video is sent to the tv. If you use the SmartApps etc on the tv, then the audio will be sent via the optical cable back to the receiver. The Harmony remote can be programmed to automatically select the correct input(s) for what ever source you want to use, i.e. cable, blu-ray player, etc.

If the only speakers you have are the tv's speakers, that's a bit more challenging and I'll let someone else tackle that one.

I have 2 floor standing speakers that I want everything to go through - the Direct TV, Blu Ray ( for CD audio too) and stuff like netflix that is on the smart TV. No surround sound yet, but eventually I will hopefully get into all that.

Thanks again guys for all the advice.
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Ps. Can you use ARC without CEC enabled?

If not, why not? It seems to make sense that you might want audio to return to your receiver but might not want all the CEC functions.

I don't know if it makes sense to anyone other than me though!
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Old 04-24-2014, 06:37 PM
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I think AV_Integrated answered that. You may be able to disable just CEC but both features are so closely intertwined you may lose some ARC functionality. It all depends on how the mfr wants to implement that. What makes sense to the consumer doesn't always make sense to the engineers frown.gif
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Old 04-24-2014, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SophieSox View Post

Ps. Can you use ARC without CEC enabled?

If not, why not? It seems to make sense that you might want audio to return to your receiver but might not want all the CEC functions.

I don't know if it makes sense to anyone other than me though!
No, you can't do it that way.

Yes, it's extremely stupid that you can't do it that way.

Very frustrating that you can't do it that way!

I've always thought that ARC should simply be an 'input' on the A/V receiver to select and should work as such.

That's the reality of the somewhat poor/questionable design of HDMI.

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Old 04-24-2014, 11:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Okay, so I think the plan tomorrow is to disable the ARC CEC on the amp, TV and the Blu Ray (when it's set up).

Now let me just get this straight, the Direct Tv HDMI will still go to the receiver, as will the Blu Ray HDMI. Then the HDMI out 1 port from the receiver still goes to the TV but should it still go to the HDMI 2 ARC port on the TV or should it just go to the normal HDMI 1 port.....or does it make no difference?

Things are starting to become a little clearer at last on what needs to be done thanks to you guys.

Let me also as this question, does the length of an HDMI cable matter and the same for an optical cable? I want to do a similar setup in my bedroom with my older Pioneer receiver that has HDMI ports but I think it might have to be quite a bit of a distance from the TV due to space and layout of my bedroom. Same for the Blu Ray and Direct TV genie. I just wondered if it affects quality or anything like that.

Thanks again for all your help!
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Old 04-25-2014, 07:27 AM
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Sounds like you are getting it figured out just fine. You should be able to use either port of the TV just fine. Should being the key word.

For the length of the HDMI cable, it may or may not be an issue depending on the actual length, but there are long HDMI cables which should not be an issue up to about 50' in length, so really - how long is that 'quite a bit of a distance'? If it is easy to put the cable in place, then Monoprice Redmere cables offer a thinner cable that is easier to work with, and can cover the longer distances, but due to active circuitry, they may (may!) fail over time and should be able to be replaced without tearing up walls.

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Old 04-25-2014, 01:53 PM
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A quick scan back through the thread and I'm wondering if you really need ARC?

Are you using a tuner or any Streaming media the TV has inbuilt or is all viewing via external Sources?

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Old 04-29-2014, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry for the late reply.,I have been out of town. Thanks for all the replies and help.

I disabled the CEC and just juggle my remotes accordingly. Bit of a pain but not too bad.

Now I have a new problem. I just bought a new connector "Mediabridge 3.5mm Male to 2-Male RCA Adapter (6 Feet) - Step Down design", for my old laptop to plug into my receiver so I can play music through my speakers. Only when I plug it in I get some weird interference noise and nothing else.

I plugged it into the cd and DVD RCA audio inputs thinking it wouldn't be a problem. Anyone know what the problem might be?

Once again I'm going nuts and need any help.

Sorry to be a pain

Thank you,

Sophie.
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Old 04-29-2014, 12:41 PM

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Might want to check the sound card settings in your pc, that cable should work with either of the inputs on the avr as you are trying to use it.

BTW,, instead of juggling remotes look into one of the Harmony remotes suggested, the 650 is a good one and can be had for a reasonable price....
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Old 04-29-2014, 01:48 PM
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The Harmony is a good idea. It's another expense (not too bad) but you don't have to rely on the flakiness of CEC at all. I highly recommend them. They can be a bit to program but there's really good help in the Remotes Forum. Just make sure you get one that can programmed for the number of devices you have now or plan to have in the future.
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Old 04-30-2014, 08:43 AM
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Laptop - assuming you are using the Headphone socket on the Laptop have you tested it with a set of Headphones to confirm it is working properly.

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Old 05-04-2014, 12:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys. I found out it was a faulty connector. I got it replaced and now it works fine.

Thanks again!
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Old 05-13-2014, 12:51 PM - Thread Starter
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After replacing my faulty cable from my laptop to my Receivers DVD input, thought everything was okay.

But I am noticing that when the music is on very low or goes silent between tracks there is an awful lot of "interference" noise. It's very annoying. I tried it to the cd input too but it does th same thing

I just wondered if this is normal or if there is anything I can do to stop it? It is so annoying!

Thanks guys,

Sophie.
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Old 05-14-2014, 11:08 PM
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I have a very similar set up as do you.  I first tried to run all of my components into my pioneer vsx-522 and send everything to my samsung TV via the HDMI out on the receiver.  I tried leaving CEC enabled and tried both HDMI 1 input on the samsung tv (marked as STB for set-top box) and HDMI 2 (ARC).  Neither gave me the results that I wanted and the receiver kept changing to the TV input when I didn't want it to like you mentioned.

 

When I did some more reading in the samsung tv's manual it really seemed to indicate that it wanted set top boxes to be plugged into HDMI 1 (STB).  I recently moved and the DirecTV guy who upgraded me to the Genie DVR even said that my TV is DirecTV ready with some sort of DTV box like capability built into it (doesn't matter because you still need a DVR capability which isn't built in, plus an access card I believe).

 

Anyway, it works much better for me to have the following set up.  DirecTV box into HDMI1 on the TV.  Other components into the receiver (just an HTPC). Receiver HDMI out into TV HDMI 2 (ARC).  Now the CEC basically works for me, however I leave my receiver on all the time and don't ask the new DirecTV remote to turn it on or off.  Interestingly, the old remote could turn the receiver on and off, but couldn't do anything else.  The new (and old) remote can still switch the TV's input sources and the volume control works from the remote works for the receiver through CEC whenever the receiver is on (while i don't really turn it off, if it is off the remote manages the TV's speakers).  It actually can't turn the receiver on/off though. I do still need a second remote, but it is only needed for switching the active input of the receiver.  I'm not even sure I need it but I have digital optical out going into the receiver from the DirecTV box.  I can't remember what happens audio wise if I run a TV app like Amazon Prime Instant Video, but I think it works fine.

 

I sort of only wish I could get my TV's HDMI 2 input renamed to not still list it as HDMI 2: DirecTV from the attempts I'd made using it to watch DirecTV via the receiver's input.

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Old 06-06-2014, 05:46 AM
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Hi Brian,

 

I feel your pain!  I am having the same frustrations with my brand-new Samsung PN64F8500 TV and Yamaha RX-V575 AVR,

 

I have enabled AnyNet+ and ARC on the TV; and ARC/HDMI-control on the AVR.  All input devices are connected through the AVR -- the primary being a Tivo Premiere XL4 on HDMI1.  The TV remote turns both the TV and the AVR on and off and controls the AVR volume correctly.  So, with the AVR selecting the Tivo on HDMI1, I power down using the TV remote. But when I power-up, the following sequence occurs every time:

 

  (1) The AVR switches to the "TV" input (AV4), which has nothing connected to it, yet video is still passed through from HDMI1.

  (2) About a second later, the AVR switches back to the "Tivo" input on HDMI1, and all is well.  But wait about 5 or 6 seconds ...

  (3) Now the AVR switches back to the "TV" input and sound is lost.

 

At this point I must re-select the "Tivo" input on the AVR to restore sound.  I have found no way to defeat this scenario.  I believe this is because CEC does not recognize the Tivo box and therefore tells the AVR to switch to the "TV" device -- despite the fact that there is no "TV" device connected.

 

Cheers!

 

-Jay

 
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Old 06-06-2014, 08:34 AM
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ARC/CEC is very problematic for some as you have discovered. Mfrs are not required (as of yet, but that will change with HDMI 2.0) to implement all of the options available for CEC, so that's why there are incompatibilities and inconsistencies when attempting to get CEC to work correctly with different devices. Probably the best solution if you can't get it to work to your satisfaction is to get a programmable remote like a Harmony and control your system that way. They can be a bit of a challenge to program (there's lots of help in the Remote Forum) but they work very well with different devices.
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Old 06-10-2014, 12:51 PM
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Sophie said 'I just wondered if this is normal or if there is anything I can do to stop it? It is so annoying!' - yes, though it involves moving away from using the Laptop Headphone socket (which are usually horrible as an audio interface'.

Either add a USB DAC between the Laptop and the AVR (can be had for relatively low $$$) or ditch the laptop/use it simply as a hard-drive and install a streaming device (such as Sonos).

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Old 11-23-2014, 04:46 AM
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Turning on ARC

I have a Pioneer VSX-521-K and it works perfectly with a Samsung 6350. I connected HDMI with the Pioneer out and Samsung HDMI-2. Turned ARC on for both the Pioneer (through Setup) and the Samsung (default).

Everything works flawless.
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Old 12-08-2014, 12:53 PM
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I have a similar problem/setup. Not sure if I should post in a seperate thread, but it might be of interrest because of the info, that this worked perfectly with my old Onkyo receiver. So its hard to accept that a new Pioneer can't do it.

I have a single HD source connected via HDMI to my Pioneer 924, which connects via HDMI to my Pioneer TV.
In practice, I almost never switch source (it's a HTPC), so just need the receiver to catch the audio, and pass through the video.

The TV has no internal speakers (it has a stereo amplifier, but nothing connected), so is really built for this type of setup.

When the TV powers on, it will switch on the receiver via HDMI CEC.
The receiver turns on fine, defaulting to the last input.
Then it infuriatingly switches to the "TV" source! Even though that source has been explicitely disabled! The "TV" source is a pure audio source, which can be either optical/coax or RCA.... And I have neither connected.
Given that the receiver was turned on by CEC through its HDMI output, it stands to reason, that I would want to utilise its HDMI output, and so use some sort of HDMI source... But somehow it decides to switch to the TV source anyway.

I just switched to this Pioneer receiver from an old and very cheap Onkyo receiver, and though it had shortcommings, this part worked perfectly on the Onkyo.

I assumed, that using a Pioneer receiver with a Pioneer TV would make things work... And still thinks there must be some way of accomplishing the "normal" scenario.
Otherwise I guess. I will have to return the Pioneer receiver - because it won't work with a Pioneer TV, which would be somewhat odd.
(Any idea what alternative reveiver to look at? I wanted one with a second room zone, and which could automatically send an Airplay input to the second room, without interrupting whatever was going on in the primary room. Most receivers I looked at could not even play the airplay input in the second zone by itself, let alone send it there by default. And this receiver is going to stand in a small back room, where it's hard to reach).

Using remote(s) is really not an option for me - the HTPC will switch the TV on through a Rs-232 connection, and select its input etc. The receiver and PC is in another room (behind the TV).
My only input is a Bluetooth PC keyboard with touchpad.
I might be able to get the PC to send a CEC command to the receiver, but it would be a pain.
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Old 12-08-2014, 01:02 PM

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AFAIK the tv setting in the avr is simply hard wired (or at least not assignable) that way (and is in my Onkyo avr), the only option so to speak when HDMI-CEC/ARC is enabled, is for the tv on to trigger the tv input in the avr. Just a poorly thought out "feature", seems to be only good for those who use the tv as their centerpiece/switching center instead of an avr....

Last edited by lovinthehd; 12-08-2014 at 01:07 PM.
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Old 02-07-2015, 10:15 AM
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I'm having the exact same issues as Sophie. I don't mind having to switch the input on the Pioneer 1120 back to the correct HDMI so much as I hate having to go into the sound settings of the TV every time and switch it to "Receiver". If I don't switch the sound setting on the television, my STB remote will change the volume of the television, not the receiver - very annoying. Another note - As soon as a link the TV sound to the receiver option, it links Anynet+ and switches the HDMI input on the receiver back to TV/SAT. I use the SmartTV functions like Pandora and Vudu, so I need the ARC (TV is wall mounted so optical is out of the question as well). I had a 70" Sony 850B prior to this Samsung 75" H6350 and the Sony linked up perfectly with the receiver. Hoping someone can at least give me advice on how to get the TV to default to the receiver for audio.
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Old 02-07-2015, 11:34 AM
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The problem is not so much the ARC feature it's CEC. CEC is a very poorly implemented feature because it is not a standardized feature. IOW, mfrs are free to choose which options of CEC to enable which leads to incompatibilities across devices and even sometimes within the same mfr. ARC and CEC are "related" in that both require an HDMI connection. Anynet+ is Samsung's version of CEC (Consumer Electronic Control). I don't know if you can disable CEC and still use ARC or not. That would be a question for Samsung or someone else who is using Anynet+. The best way to eliminate the CEC issue is to disable it and use a programmable remote like a Harmony. I use an old Harmony 880 for my HTS and it works flawlessly with all of my devices with just a single press of a button. However, I don't use ARC (I have an optical cable from my tv to my receiver). I do use the ARC output on my receiver I just don't have ARC enabled so the HDMI output functions as a uni-directional output.
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