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Old 12-10-2013, 01:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Can anyone recommend a 2x4ft drop ceiling tile? Between USG, Armstrong and Ceilume, there are so many. Hopefully someone here has purchased some and can elaborate on how well they helped with absorbing/diffusing sound.
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Old 12-10-2013, 11:11 AM
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Ceiling tiles absorb, not diffuse. Most ceiling tiles are meant for offices and handle only speech frequencies, and so are not suitable for music rooms. The best type of ceiling tile is made of rigid fiberglass at least one inch thick. Thicker rigid fiberglass tiles are useful around the perimeter of the room to add bass trapping. This page on my company's web site shows the type of ceiling tiles that are best for music and home theater rooms:

RealTraps Ceiling Tiles

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Old 12-10-2013, 12:13 PM
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In addition to Ethan's company, Mason Acoustics and other companies offer a variety of ceiling solutions. Mason offers a variety of panels with slats, cubes, Helmholtz cavities, etc. I have seen replacement tiles that look like regular audio diffusers than absorbers but my very limited experience with them is less than positive...

My experience with standard "acoustic" tiles is same as Ethan's, natch... Not effective broad-band, and in a live room I am not sure I buy into typical ceiling tiles helping much at all. An impression not helped when, after installing them in our college departmental cafeteria as part of a major refurb, the painters then painted over the ceiling tiles, wrecking what little absorption they offered in the first place. smile.gif

The most effective tiles I have used, DIY or commercial, were tiles made from OC703 or similar like the ones on Ethan's site. In the primordial past we tacked (spot-glued) cloth faces onto tiles of mineral wool batting cut to fit the ceiling tile frames.

What is your application, office space, music room, what?

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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Old 12-10-2013, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post

Ceiling tiles absorb, not diffuse. Most ceiling tiles are meant for offices and handle only speech frequencies, and so are not suitable for music rooms. The best type of ceiling tile is made of rigid fiberglass at least one inch thick. Thicker rigid fiberglass tiles are useful around the perimeter of the room to add bass trapping. This page on my company's web site shows the type of ceiling tiles that are best for music and home theater rooms:

RealTraps Ceiling Tiles

--Ethan

I'll definitely check this out. I'll be using them in a basement drop ceiling for a theater/media/game room.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

In addition to Ethan's company, Mason Acoustics and other companies offer a variety of ceiling solutions. Mason offers a variety of panels with slats, cubes, Helmholtz cavities, etc. I have seen replacement tiles that look like regular audio diffusers than absorbers but my very limited experience with them is less than positive...

My experience with standard "acoustic" tiles is same as Ethan's, natch... Not effective broad-band, and in a live room I am not sure I buy into typical ceiling tiles helping much at all. An impression not helped when, after installing them in our college departmental cafeteria as part of a major refurb, the painters then painted over the ceiling tiles, wrecking what little absorption they offered in the first place. smile.gif

The most effective tiles I have used, DIY or commercial, were tiles made from OC703 or similar like the ones on Ethan's site. In the primordial past we tacked (spot-glued) cloth faces onto tiles of mineral wool batting cut to fit the ceiling tile frames.

What is your application, office space, music room, what?

They will be used in my basement drop ceiling. I'm looking for something to quiet the sound from the speakers (home theater/media/game room) from transferring upstairs. I understand tiles won't stop all sound and I'm already filling the ceiling joists with insulation, but I have to imagine there are some tiles out there better than what I currently have.
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Old 12-10-2013, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ch1sox View Post


They will be used in my basement drop ceiling. I'm looking for something to quiet the sound from the speakers (home theater/media/game room) from transferring upstairs. I understand tiles won't stop all sound and I'm already filling the ceiling joists with insulation, but I have to imagine there are some tiles out there better than what I currently have.

Sound isolation .... you need to block the sound transmission, suggest drywall/DD/GG/isoclips/etc instead of ceiling tiles
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Old 12-10-2013, 05:45 PM
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I use Capaul Open Plan Ceiling tiles: http://certainteed.com/products/ceilings/index/314118 It comes in 1", 1.5" and 3" thicknesses. My ceiling is dropped 3" below the joists, and the joists are stuffed with pink fluffy fiberglass. The whole ceiling is a big bass trap.

I use the "Black Nubby" finish because it has an extremely low "Light Reflectance" of 0.03. I also use a black grid system. The ceiling is a "black hole" for both light and sound.

I had it professionally installed so it doesn't shake or rattle, even with very loud low frequencies.

Craig
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Old 12-10-2013, 08:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

Sound isolation .... you need to block the sound transmission, suggest drywall/DD/GG/isoclips/etc instead of ceiling tiles
I understand, but I'm asking about ceiling tiles though and whether or not they'll do anything.
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Old 12-11-2013, 09:24 AM
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Ceiling tiles will absorb some HF energy but most transmission is through the HVAC ducts and wall/ceiling joists/studs/wallboard. I think you will find tiles of any sort will do very little for isolation. Acoustic treatment and isolation are two very different things. mtbdudex's post is to the isolation aspect, which normally requires building a "room within a room" to isolate sound transmission. That is what I did for my media room build when we finished our basement, including a minisplit to isolate the room from the house HVAC.

Look up IsoMax at the Kinetics Noise site for examples: http://kineticsnoise.com/ I used them, and have a set of drawings I provided to our contractor to perform the build (6" mineral wool in the walls and ceiling, drywall, IsoMax clips for air space and isolation, double drywall inner walls and ceiling floating on the isoMax clips, acoustic caulk all seams and joints, backed the outlets with weather sealant and caulk, bypassed/removed all ducts from the house into the room, added exterior ducts and minisplit to provide HVAC to the room isolated from the house, etc.) It reads like a lot of work but really wasn't bad. I looked at several options for hanging the walls and ceiling and at that time the IsoMax clips provided the best combination of isolation and ease of installation. My contractor has since used my drawings and the same scheme on several other home builds and a couple of commercial builds (one to isolate a bar from the beauty shop next door).

HTH - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:44 AM
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Sharing here, I see a "new" product that might interest the OP
(new to me as I was un-aware of it)
http://soundisolationcompany.com/about-us/recent-news/171-grid-ceiling-office-noise-soundproofing
Quote:
October 30, 2012 – Soundproofing grid ceiling tiles expand commercial alternatives. Sound Isolation Company today announced the addition of Privacy Ceiling Blocker Tiles and Privacy Fire Rated Light Covers creating an effective, simple to install soundproofing system for all commercial and residential drop grid ceilings.

Soundproofing grid ceilings that are so common in commercial and office buildings has been a significant problem; using additional insulation simply will not provide privacy. When recessed lighting exists there is basically a hole in the ceiling. These soundproof ceiling tiles, combined with privacy fire-rated light covers and vent covers, can significantly reduce office to office noise.

“We have had a tremendous response from building owners and facilities managers to these new soundproofing ceiling tiles,” says Jody Cook, President of Sound Isolation Company. “Most commercial buildings – and even some older residential buildings – use standard drop “grid style” ceiling tiles that offer no soundproofing whatsoever. Privacy Ceiling Blocker Tiles are designed to fit above the existing ceiling tiles, requiring no construction or demolition, and offer an immediate improvement in sound blocking. Adding Privacy Soundproof Light and Vent Covers minimizes sound coming through light fixtures and open air return vents, further isolating office noise. It’s an easy option to solve an old problem.” Privacy Ceiling Blocker Tiles are available in standard and custom sizes for commercial and residential use.
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Old 12-11-2013, 12:56 PM
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I am skeptical of their efficacy in the OP's situation. They will help reduce HF transmission and are probably effective in reducing office-type noise between floors, but for media rooms I suspect they aren't nearly enough. Don't know for sure since I have not tried them, natch, but I have done similar things, including things similar to Ethan's ceiling traps, and effective, adequate isolation was not achieved. (How's that for weasel-wording? smile.gif )

Good find, though, thanks! - Don

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Old 12-11-2013, 08:32 PM
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Some other options, I've had experience with all of these.

Primacoustic, both absorptive: StratoTiles, ThunderTile.

Diffusers that mount in ceiling grids, such as RPG Harmonix K and Auralex QuadFusor / T'Fusor.

I actually like diffusive ceilings, especially if you have higher than normal ceilings. I did a room once where the whole ceiling was diffusors, it sounded awesome. I've also done rooms with fully absorptive ceilings, which also sounded awesome. Part of the skill in acoustic design is balancing the room in terms of absorption vs reflection vs diffusion and where it goes. There are no hard and fast rules, it depends on your room dimensions, number of seats, number of speakers, room usage, speaker off axis radiation patterns, etc.

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Old 01-22-2014, 10:12 PM
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CH1Sox- I personally recommend Ceilume. Check out their Soniguard product on the link below. They're super environmentally friendly as well and contain no harmful ingredients. They significantly help with noise reduction and also maintaining temperature.

 

http://ceilume.com/ceilingtile_detail.cfm/productID.2469

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Old 01-22-2014, 10:13 PM
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Soniguard by Ceilume! Hands down.

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Old 05-21-2014, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

I use Capaul Open Plan Ceiling tiles: http://certainteed.com/products/ceilings/index/314118 It comes in 1", 1.5" and 3" thicknesses. My ceiling is dropped 3" below the joists, and the joists are stuffed with pink fluffy fiberglass. The whole ceiling is a big bass trap.

I use the "Black Nubby" finish because it has an extremely low "Light Reflectance" of 0.03. I also use a black grid system. The ceiling is a "black hole" for both light and sound.

I had it professionally installed so it doesn't shake or rattle, even with very loud low frequencies.

Craig

Doesn't seem like these are available around my area. I looked at the site, and within the 100 miles none of the stores seem to carry them. Did you have to special order with your contractor?

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Old 05-21-2014, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Doesn't seem like these are available around my area. I looked at the site, and within the 100 miles none of the stores seem to carry them. Did you have to special order with your contractor?

I got mine through a local distributor. I looked at the Certainteed website: http://certainteed.com/locators/WhereToBuySearch.aspx

In Kansas City, MO, I found this place:

Holmes Drywall Supply Inc
1701 W 25th St
Kansas City, MO 64108
[email protected]
Phone:816-471-7595
Fax:816-471-7631
holmesdrywall.com
Insulation Commercial, Ceilings, AirRenew Drywall

and this place:

Sierra Building Products, LLC
1519 W 16th St
Kansas City, MO 64102
[email protected]
Phone:816-474-0088
Fax:816-474-0079
sierrabp.com
Insulation Commercial, Ceilings

Good luck! smile.gif

Craig
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:26 PM
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I used that site to check before I posted, but I only looked up retail and the only retailer that showed up said they didn't carry it when I called.

Apparently, you looked up distributer. I didn't figure I'd qualify as a distributer when I'm only looking to buy say 20-30 pieces - but hey - costs me nothing to ask I suppose! - maybe they'll help me out!

Thanks for the info!

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Old 05-21-2014, 05:53 PM

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ch1sox View Post


They will be used in my basement drop ceiling. I'm looking for something to quiet the sound from the speakers (home theater/media/game room) from transferring upstairs. I understand tiles won't stop all sound and I'm already filling the ceiling joists with insulation, but I have to imagine there are some tiles out there better than what I currently have.

Just to emphasize something that has already been said.

Ceiling tiles are generally not effective at reducing sound transmission.

They are like barking up the wrong tree.

The difference between sound absorption and sound transmission are described here:

https://soundinsulation.ie/Knowledge-Base/Sound-Absorption,-Sound-Insulation-and-the-Differences-Between-Them

or:

http://arpeggioacoustics.com/resources/faqs/what-is-the-difference-between-insulation-and-absorption/

"Sound insulation refers to the act of impeding the transmission of sound from one area to another or from a source to a receiver. Typical examples include the sound insulation between adjacent apartment units or between a busy highway and one’s bedroom. The best way to improve the insulation between two areas typically involves the use of heavy materials such as concrete or gypsum board.

Sound absorption refers to the phenomenon whereby some or all of the sound energy incident on a surface is either converted into heat or passes through the absorber. For this reason, good sound absorbers do not necessarily make good sound insulators. Absorption typically should not be the primary means of achieving good sound insulation.
"

There are two different situations related to blocking sound - floors and ceilings versus walls. Walls are probably easier to treat to block sound than floors. In either case there are two general approaches: One is mass-loading the existing partition, and the other is adding another sound blocking partition that is isolated from the partition that is already there. For walls, this means a second wall or isolating the inside surface from the outside surface of a typical wood frame wall with drywall on the inside and the outside. Putting in two rows of studs that are staggered and only touching one surface or the other can be very effective. For floors, this means doing something like pouring a layer of concrete over a resilient spacer.
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Old 05-22-2014, 10:13 AM
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Craig - Woo hoo!

The Holmes place has them and in stock, and only $116 for 16 pieces.

WOOT!

I'm going to go buy a couple packages to get started that'll do my front area at least.


What pink fluffy do you recommend putting above the tile?

I was considering this for Roxul...
http://lowes.com/ProductDisplay?partNumber=305816-1278-RXSS31525&langId=-1&storeId=10151&productId=3394032&catalogId=10051&cmRelshp=req&rel=nofollow&cId=PDIO1

Or what would you recommend for pink fluffy?

There is a 10% off coupon for lowes right now, and I have an additional 5% off through my credit card so I'll buy the insulation as well today to put above the tiles from lowes.

My floor joists have 14" space between the boards (board to board).

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Old 05-22-2014, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Craig - Woo hoo!

The Holmes place has them and in stock, and only $116 for 16 pieces.

WOOT!

I'm going to go buy a couple packages to get started that'll do my front area at least.
Do they have the "Black Nubby"? My distributor had to order the Black Nubby. It only took a couple days to get it, but they didn't "stock it" like they did with the white tiles. Also, do they have the 1.5" thickness, or just the 1"? The 1.5" thickness has a slightly better NRC, (Noise Reduction Coefficient, 0.95 vs. 1.00), and should absorb to a slightly lower frequency. Certainteed doesn't specify the Sound Absorption Coefficient by frequency, but thicker material generally has a better NRC and absorbs lower. My ceiling is 1" tiles because I didn't have enough room above the gridwork to fit the 1.5" tiles. If you do, the 1.5" would probably be better. If not, the 1" tiles work just fine.

You can find a ton of info on Noise Reduction capabilities of different acoustic products at Bob Gold's site: http://bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

What pink fluffy do you recommend putting above the tile?

I was considering this for Roxul...
http://lowes.com/ProductDisplay?partNumber=305816-1278-RXSS31525&langId=-1&storeId=10151&productId=3394032&catalogId=10051&cmRelshp=req&rel=nofollow&cId=PDIO1

Or what would you recommend for pink fluffy?

There is a 10% off coupon for lowes right now, and I have an additional 5% off through my credit card so I'll buy the insulation as well today to put above the tiles from lowes.

My floor joists have 14" space between the boards (board to board).

I used Owens Corning pink fluffy fiberglass. Bob Gold's site shows the 6.25" R-19 batts as having having an excellent NRC at 125 Hz of 0.94. You can get it faced or unfaced. I used the unfaced, but you might get less mid and HF attenuation if you use the faced product. Still it will be covered by the ceiling tiles, so that mid and HF reflectivity may not help much. In that case, the unfaced is cheaper.

With pink fluffy used for bass traps, you don't want high density of material. Lower density material actually absorbs bass waves better than high density. The Roxul you linked looks like a higher density product, although I can't be sure because they don't list the density on the Lowes page. Bob Gold's site lists the NRC's for Rockwool, (which I assume is the same as Lowhat Lowes is calling "Stonewool.") The NRC's at 125 Hz are not nearly as good for the Roxul product as for the OC pink fluffy.

Be sure you wear gloves, tight clothes and breathing masks when working with all this stuff. If it gets on your skin or in your respiratory tract, it can be irritating. (Fortunately, it's been shown to be non-carcinogenic. eek.gif )

Craig

Edit: Just to reinforce what others have said, these tiles do virtually nothing to block sound transmission to adjacent spaces. I am *only* using them as acoustic absorbers/bass traps in my room.

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Old 05-22-2014, 12:06 PM
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I went there over lunch and picked up some ceiling panels. They didn't have the open floor models afterall, said they were special order only when I got there, but the customer desk recommended the model they had in stock and said thats what most of their customers used for theater rooms. The model is called Theater Black and the one they had in stock was 5/8" thick. They had a 1" model, but it was 2x's the cost and weeks out via special order.

They have no Light Reflection rating compared to a .85 on the Open Floor model, black nubby. I asked for clarification and they said no rating was lower light reflectance than the Open Floor, so these tilies would be less reflective. The NRC on the tiles I bought was only .75 compared to the .90 on the tiles you bought, but being that I'm planning on putting pink fluffy or roxul or something above them, I figured the NRC was probably not as big an issue.

they were $110 for 16. I bought three packs because as best I can tell I'll need around 35 tiles. So I guess I'll have some extra. With the NRC being at .75 I might put them behind my AT projector screen instead of the 1" pyramid foam I bought with a .35 NRC. They pyramid foam was admittedly more a cosmetic and light control solution with a tiny tiny tiny amount of acoustic treatment capability. But I am/was limited on depth of material behind the AT screen, so any larger would have almost come in contact with the screen material itself - which of course is less than ideal.

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Old 05-22-2014, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

I went there over lunch and picked up some ceiling panels. They didn't have the open floor models afterall, said they were special order only when I got there, but the customer desk recommended the model they had in stock and said thats what most of their customers used for theater rooms. The model is called Theater Black and the one they had in stock was 5/8" thick. They had a 1" model, but it was 2x's the cost and weeks out via special order.

They have no Light Reflection rating compared to a .85 on the Open Floor model, black nubby. I asked for clarification and they said no rating was lower light reflectance than the Open Floor, so these tilies would be less reflective. The NRC on the tiles I bought was only .75 compared to the .90 on the tiles you bought, but being that I'm planning on putting pink fluffy or roxul or something above them, I figured the NRC was probably not as big an issue.

they were $110 for 16. I bought three packs because as best I can tell I'll need around 35 tiles. So I guess I'll have some extra. With the NRC being at .75 I might put them behind my AT projector screen instead of the 1" pyramid foam I bought with a .35 NRC. They pyramid foam was admittedly more a cosmetic and light control solution with a tiny tiny tiny amount of acoustic treatment capability. But I am/was limited on depth of material behind the AT screen, so any larger would have almost come in contact with the screen material itself - which of course is less than ideal.
Hi Jonathan,

I'm not understanding some of the info you were given...

Let's start with some definitions...
An AC, (Absorption Coefficient), is the amount of absorption of sound for a specific material at a specific frequency. For example, ½” drywall on 2x4 studs has an absorption coefficient at 125 Hz of 0.29. IOW, about 29% of the sound pressure at 125 Hz that hits a piece of drywall is absorbed by the drywall.

The NRC, (Noise Reduction Coefficient), is an average of the AC's, (Absorption Coefficients) at 250, 500, 1,000 and 2,000 Hz. A higher NRC means more absorption across that range of frequencies.

The Capaul Open Plan has an NRC of 0.95 for the 1" material and 1.00 for the 1.5" material. That means they have almost complete absorption down to 250 Hz..

Those 5/8" tiles with an NRC of 0.75 will have less absorption capability, particularly at lower frequencies. The effectiveness of the broadband absorption will be diminished. You'll have absorption from the insulation above the ceiling tiles with the insulation you're putting between the joists, but I wouldn't expect the overall broadband absorption of that ceiling "system" to be the same as mine. Nonetheless, I would encourage you to use Owens Corning pink fluffy R19 between the joists. It has an Absorption Coefficient of 0.94 at 125 Hz, so that would give you improved broadband absorption.

The LR, (Light Reflectance), is a measurement of the percent of light that strikes a surface that is reflected by that surface. A higher LR means more light is reflected.

The Capaul Open Plan, Black Nubby has a Light Reflectance of 0.03, which means only 3% of the light that hits it is reflected. A 0.85 Light Reflectance is not good if you're trying to reduce light reflection. A 0.85 LR rating means 85% of the light that hits it is reflected. 0.85 is in the same range as the Capaul Open Plan White surface material, which is intended to reflect light, which leads me to believe they were quoting you the LR for the Capaul Open Plan White material.

Did the Theater Black tiles you bought have an LR specification? Who makes those tiles?

Edit: Nevermind, I found them: http://certainteed.com/resources/CTC_Performa_Theatre_Black_f.pdf

They have the same LR as the Black Nubby, 0.03.! smile.gif From a Light Reflectance standpoint, they should be just as good as the Black Nubby.

I would encourage you to use commercial quality gridwork for your ceiling. The cheap consumer grade gridwork does not fit the tiles as tightly as the commercial grade stuff. My previous ceiling was done with consumer grade gridwork and it rattled and shook with deep loud bass. It drove me crazy. The new ceiling with commercial grade gridwork and 1" Capaul Open Plan tiles is completely silent, doesn't shake or rattle and is an excellent sound absorption product.

Good luck!

Craig

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Old 05-22-2014, 04:45 PM
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Craig,

I'm going to go with the grid I have now for financial purposes. Like you, if I can't iron out the rattles, then I'll probably be forced/pleased to upgrade the grid in the future, but since I'm doing it myself it doesn't cost me anything to try it out first. There are a lot of other things commanding my time and money at this junction and so I'll do what I can with what I have.......for now.

I'll buy some pink fluffy tonight from Lowes as well - RC19 and put it up above the panels. I'm not looking forward to working with insulation, but the end result will hopefully make it worthwhile, and you are right - reading the references you and others have provided - the pink fluffy seems to absorb the lower frequencies much better than the Roxul. So pink fluffy it is. yuck... I'll prepare to be itchy, even with precautions - it's hard to avoid that condition.

So my front wall will have 3" wedge foam outside of the screen - NRC of .75. 1" foam of NRC .35 under screen, or perhaps these ceiling panels NRC of .75 under the screen. Ceilng tiles of .75, and pink fluffy above - which should make the overall ceiling pretty decent. Carpet and Pad on the floor. I've got a bunch of 2x4 OC 703 panels and Roxul panels to place around the room as well at first reflection points. It may not be perfect, but it'll sure be better than my last space. Thank you again for all of your guidance! You've been very helpful!

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Old 05-22-2014, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Craig,

I'm going to go with the grid I have now for financial purposes. Like you, if I can't iron out the rattles, then I'll probably be forced/pleased to upgrade the grid in the future, but since I'm doing it myself it doesn't cost me anything to try it out first. There are a lot of other things commanding my time and money at this junction and so I'll do what I can with what I have.......for now.
If you put it together solidly, it could work out just fine. I installed my first ceiling myself. I had never installed a dropped ceiling before, and my first priority was to get it level. I didn't get it tight enough... and it rattled like a biatch! Also, I used cheap fiberboard tiles, and I'm sure they were a big part of the problem. The Theater Black tiles look like much better products, and they should work quite well.
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

I'll buy some pink fluffy tonight from Lowes as well - RC19 and put it up above the panels. I'm not looking forward to working with insulation, but the end result will hopefully make it worthwhile, and you are right - reading the references you and others have provided - the pink fluffy seems to absorb the lower frequencies much better than the Roxul. So pink fluffy it is. yuck... I'll prepare to be itchy, even with precautions - it's hard to avoid that condition.
If you wear tight clothes, gloves, and put rubber bands around sleeves and cuffs, (or seal them with duct tape), and wear a mask, you should be fine. You'll also want eye protection. I have a friend who ended up with a scratched cornea from a small fiber that got in his eye. eek.gif When you're working overhead, it's easy to get debris in your eyes. Protect yourself, buddy!
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

So my front wall will have 3" wedge foam outside of the screen - NRC of .75. 1" foam of NRC .35 under screen, or perhaps these ceiling panels NRC of .75 under the screen. Ceilng tiles of .75, and pink fluffy above - which should make the overall ceiling pretty decent. Carpet and Pad on the floor. I've got a bunch of 2x4 OC 703 panels and Roxul panels to place around the room as well at first reflection points. It may not be perfect, but it'll sure be better than my last space. Thank you again for all of your guidance! You've been very helpful!
I'll be interested to see how you like the results. Acoustic foam is not a great absorption material, as you can see from the NRC's. It's mostly HF absorption. Most acousticians recommend "broadband" absorption. Still, you gotta do what you can. Your ceiling will be a very good bass trap/broadband absorber, and that will help a LOT!

Craig

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Old 05-27-2014, 08:14 AM
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Why not just use Sheetrock? Perhaps two 5/8" layers with clips and green glue in between? I personally think that a Sheetrock ceiling looks best anyway. You could do a nice "cloud" design on it for absorption and perhaps add some ambient lighting and paint it black or grey. Either of which would look great!
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Why not just use Sheetrock? Perhaps two 5/8" layers with clips and green glue in between? I personally think that a Sheetrock ceiling looks best anyway. You could do a nice "cloud" design on it for absorption and perhaps add some ambient lighting and paint it black or grey. Either of which would look great!

One could even put an absorptive dropped ceiling under it...

Good luck trying to talk sense to the OP. I tried the same thing in /t/1504734/drop-ceiling-tile-recommendations#post_24745567 and it obviously fell on deaf ears.

Given that the final evaluation will be sighted, no doubt the OP will perceive a great improvement.
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Old 05-27-2014, 01:29 PM
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One could even put an absorptive dropped ceiling under it...
But then you lose all the acoustic absorption from the pink fluffy fiberglass above the dropped ceiling tiles, between the joists. Everyone always suggests "broadband" absorption. How can you do much better than 1" fiberglass tiles mounted below 8" of pink fluffy? That's 9" of absorption across the entire ceiling. Certainly, it won't do much for sound "isolation." However, for in-room acoustics, it will have a huge effect.
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Good luck trying to talk sense to the OP. I tried the same thing in /t/1504734/drop-ceiling-tile-recommendations#post_24745567 and it obviously fell on deaf ears.
How do you know it fell on deaf ears. The OP hasn't been back to this thread since you posted.
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Given that the final evaluation will be sighted, no doubt the OP will perceive a great improvement.
Hmmmm... Can you recommend a methodology for doing a blind comparison of a room with a dropped acoustical ceiling vs. a drywalled ceiling? Would you somehow "beam" the listener between two identical rooms, one with an acoustical dropped ceiling and one with a drywalled ceiling? Or, maybe your ABX Comparator could magically turn a dropped ceiling into drywall instantaneously? rolleyes.gif

The results of installing a dropped acoustical ceiling vs a drywalled ceiling should be easily measurable in terms of shortened decay times at various frequencies within the room. That is the only "proof" you'll ever get that the dropped acoustical ceiling is "better" than a drywalled ceiling in terms of in-room acoustics. Whether it sounds better is in the ear of the listener.

In terms of sound transmission/isolation, measuring the amount of sound transmission with either a dropped ceiling or a drywalled ceiling is also relatively simple. Or, it can be estimated by knowing the Transmission Loss, (TL), and the Sound Transmission Class, (STC), of different partitions. The problem with the STC is that it only considers transmission losses down to 125 Hz. In an HT environment, the worst problems with sound transmission are below 125 Hz.

Nonetheless, there is no doubt a double layer of 5/8" drywall with Green Glue in between, mounted on isolation clips with have a much higher TL and STC performance than a dropped acoustical ceiling. But it won't have anywhere close to the same acoustic absorption. They're 2 completely different properties, neither of which can be tested in a blind, doubled-blind, A/B or ABX experiment. The *only* way you can determine if one is "better" than the other is to install one, measure it and listen to it, then install the other and measure it and listen to it, and then determine for yourself which you like better. Soom things just can't be tested "blind."

IME, a dropped acoustical ceiling using real, acoustically absorptive ceiling tiles, with open joists above that are stuffed with pink fluffy fiberglass, provides a much better acoustic environment than a drywalled ceiling. But that's just my experience.

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Old 05-30-2014, 06:34 AM

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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

One could even put an absorptive dropped ceiling under it...

But then you lose all the acoustic absorption from the pink fluffy fiberglass above the dropped ceiling tiles, between the joists.

I'm not communicating well.

What I meant is to say is to put the two layers of drywall separated by green glue as high as possible, and then layering the fiberglass and ceiling tile below that.
Quote:
Everyone always suggests "broadband" absorption. How can you do much better than 1" fiberglass tiles mounted below 8" of pink fluffy? That's 9" of absorption across the entire ceiling.

Generally speaking higher density fiberglass is recommended if you want to make a broadband absorber, particularly if thickness is constrained.
Quote:
Certainly, it won't do much for sound "isolation."

That's my point.
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However, for in-room acoustics, it will have a huge effect.

Agreed, however I'm proposing having both the sound-transmission reduction and the room reflection dampening.
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Old 05-30-2014, 08:20 AM
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So by having a drop-ceiling with 1" acoustical tiles with pink fluffy sitting on top of them, or in the joist above them going to be a better method of improving the low frequency performance of a typical theater room?

Can someone link a place to purchase these 1" acoustical tiles?

I currently have my theater room ripped out down to the studs and was initially planning on doing a regular Sheetrock ceiling with a cloud made out of OC703 or Safe-N-Sound, but, if having a drop ceiling with 1" tiles and pink fluffy in the joist above would provide better performance than a Sheetrock ceiling with a cloud made out of OC703 or S-N-S then I may go with the drop ceiling.
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Old 05-30-2014, 08:42 AM
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Link provided by Criag John
http://certainteed.com/locators/WhereToBuySearch.aspx

You want Capaul Open Plan or Theater Black f tiles.

check both retailers and distributers

Holmes drywall supply in KC only carried 5/8".

16 tiles for $110
the 1" was double the price but special order only.

I assumed, since I was putting RC30 above it 9" of pink fluffy - the 5/8 or 1" theater black tile was more or less an imaterial difference


The blackness of these tiles when they are on the ceiling is almost eerie. They are 3% light reflectivity and it's almost like a black hole.

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Old 05-30-2014, 11:56 AM
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I'm not communicating well.

What I meant is to say is to put the two layers of drywall separated by green glue as high as possible, and then layering the fiberglass and ceiling tile below that.
Sure, that would work, but it would take about 10.5" of ceiling height. Most basements are 8' high. Take 9" of that for tiles and insulation, plus another 1.5" for the drywall/green glue and you're down to 7' 1.5". That would be unacceptable to most theater enthusiasts. In a room with enough ceiling height, it would work fine, but you'd have to be willing to give up 10.5" of ceiling height.
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Generally speaking higher density fiberglass is recommended if you want to make a broadband absorber, particularly if thickness is constrained.
Take a look at the link I posted previously for Bob Gold's site. http://bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm It shows that higher density material works better for mids and highs, and lower density material works better for low frequencies. In my ceiling, I get mid/high absorption from the tiles, which are high density, and LF absorption from the pink fluffy above the tiles, which is lower density.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

So by having a drop-ceiling with 1" acoustical tiles with pink fluffy sitting on top of them, or in the joist above them going to be a better method of improving the low frequency performance of a typical theater room?

Can someone link a place to purchase these 1" acoustical tiles?

I currently have my theater room ripped out down to the studs and was initially planning on doing a regular Sheetrock ceiling with a cloud made out of OC703 or Safe-N-Sound, but, if having a drop ceiling with 1" tiles and pink fluffy in the joist above would provide better performance than a Sheetrock ceiling with a cloud made out of OC703 or S-N-S then I may go with the drop ceiling.
The tiles and pink fluffy extend across the whole ceiling, not just the middle of the ceiling like an "acoustic cloud." Therefore, you get more absorption. More importantly, the corners around the whole room get absorption, and the corners are the most effective places to trap bass. Overall, you'll get more acoustic treatment, and treatment to lower frequencies, from tiles and pink fluffy across the whole ceiling than from drywall and an acoustic cloud.

Jonathan, did you get your ceiling installed? How does it sound/look?

Craig

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