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Old 07-05-2006, 09:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello,

I am hoping for a little help. I got as a gift a few years back, a pair of Bose 501 V floor standing speakers. While there are many that dislike Bose out there, I am trying to use these speakers as a starting point to my system.

I plan on buying the Dennon AVR 3806 online within a few weeks. Along with this, I know I will need a decent Center Channel and then 4 surrounds and a sub. Currently I have a Sonly Sub from a HTIB kit that is a few years old. I may use it depending on how much it will cost for the 4 surrounds.

The rest of my system is a Optoma HD 72 firing on a 110" Carada screen in a complete light controlled setting.

Thanks for your help!
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Old 07-05-2006, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by littleracers
Hello,

I am hoping for a little help. I got as a gift a few years back, a pair of Bose 501 V floor standing speakers. While there are many that dislike Bose out there, I am trying to use these speakers as a starting point to my system.

I plan on buying the Dennon AVR 3806 online within a few weeks. Along with this, I know I will need a decent Center Channel and then 4 surrounds and a sub. Currently I have a Sonly Sub from a HTIB kit that is a few years old. I may use it depending on how much it will cost for the 4 surrounds.

The rest of my system is a Optoma HD 72 firing on a 110" Carada screen in a complete light controlled setting.

Thanks for your help!
You listed no budget requirement, or room size, or listening preference (60%HT/30%TV/10%Music or some such). Not a lot we can do with out those.

One thing I will recommend now (and reserve the right to take it back once we get your budget requirement) is that you do not need nearly that much receiver. Try the Pioneer 1015TX. In my book, you will get >95% the performance w/ <50% of the investment (bizrate.com pricegrabber.com). This will help you with solving the rest of your dilemmas.

That is a very nice projector setup, I am jealous! :D
A friend of mine has a Sanyo Z3 with a 101" diagonal powered screen, but he lives out of state, so I cannot enjoy it with him. :(

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Old 07-05-2006, 11:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the post and sorry for the lack of info.

The room is 19X14X10. I would follow your reccomendation to say 50% HT 40% TV and 10% games. For a Budget, I am looking to stay under the 2K mark with the receiver included.

The reason I selected that receiver is for the HDMI since I have an HDMI cable pre-installed...though I do not have to use it I guess.
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Old 07-06-2006, 04:26 AM
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To be honest; with using it for 50%HT, 40%TV, and 10% gaming, and having a $2K budget with reciever. I would sell the Bose 501 on Ebay. Bose products can usually get a good price on ebay. Buy the Denon 3806, and look into the SVS lineup of speakers or something similar.

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Old 07-06-2006, 05:33 AM
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The Bose 501's were designed as stereo speakers long before 5.1 and 7.1 systems became popular. They use a "Direct/Reflecting" design approach which bounces a large portion of the sound off the surrounding walls. They were an attempt by Bose to increase the size of the soundstage, and they were somewhat successful at doing so. However, because of their "Direct/Reflecting" design, these speakers are going to be difficult to integrate into a home theater system, especially as the L/R's. I can't think of any center channel speaker that will work well with them. Even another 501 would not work well. You don't want voices to be a mile wide; you want pinpoint definition of the soundsource for dialogue intelligibility.

Personally, I would try to find another use for them and get a more appropriate set of L/R speakers. If you really are committed to using them, they might work well as the side surround speakers. Their wide, diffuse soundstage is similar to what many dipole SS speakers produce.

Good luck.

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Old 07-06-2006, 07:07 AM
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I am sure some of the responses are *not* what you wanted to hear, but we are just being honest. Like CraigJohn said, it would be very hard to find a center channel to compliment those towers. You really do need to timber match at least the front three speakers in order to produce a good soundstage. I do advise selling the Bose or finding another use for them.

The Denon is a nice receiver but I do agree that the Pioneer 1015TX is very close for half the price. However, if you do need HDMI then the Denon is the way to go.

If your speaker budget is $1000 or so, check out the offerings from:
SVSound.com
AxiomAudio.com
**********
Swanspeakers.com
AscendAcoustics.com

Another option would be to build a nice 2 (or 2.1) channel system first and then add to it when more funds become available. $1000 can get you some real nice mains such as the Vandersteen 1c’s, Monitor Audio RS6’s, Ascend Acoustics 340Se’s with stands, Onix Rocket 550MKII’s, or Axiom M60’s. Audiogon.com sells used equipment which would be a third option.

Of course, the best thing to do is listen as much as possible to everything in your price range. Perhaps you can find something with a similar sound to the Bose (since you seem to like them so much). I know you would rather keep the Bose for fronts, but it just won’t sound good if you do it that way. Good luck to you.

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Old 07-06-2006, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littleracers
The reason I selected that receiver is for the HDMI since I have an HDMI cable pre-installed...though I do not have to use it I guess.
The Denon 2807 has better HDMI support and could save you a little money over the 3806.
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Old 07-07-2006, 03:26 AM
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Well, with $2K for speakers and receiver, do yourself a favor, and just switch component inputs on the receiver. This will allow you to cut your receiver budget down to ~$450 (1015TX), and up your speaker budget by 50%. I would not spend 1/4th of your entire audio budget on getting HDMI switching into the receiver. If you need that later, get a 5-way HDMI switcher (with remote!) for <$150 from monoprice.com then. The $400+ is better spent now on the speakers/sub, as they will provide much more obvious improvements.

I guess using the 501s as side surrounds might work ok, if you can place them appropriately in your room. You could certainly try it, then pick up a replacement pair of speakers in the future if it does not work well enough. This is all assuming you can put them where they need to be in your room with out any issues. A quick check of eBay shows me that you should certainly not expect more than $200 for the 501s, off that site (should you sell).

So, with the Pioneer receiver doing component source switching, and the projector switching between your one HDMI source and the component source that is coming out of the receiver, you would have a $1550 budget for HT speakers.

This is a very important point: A sub is a very big deal in HT. If you are spending four figures on your audio setup, do not "scrimp-and-save" on the sub. There is stuff in HT soundtracks that are effects you should feel, not really sounds you hear. Maybe that is why it was called the "Low Frequency Effects" channel, not the "Low Frequency Sounds" channel, huh? :D

Seriously, some 8" or less HTIB sub that is clacking, rattling, and chuffing does not convey what is supposed to happen when "Darla taps the tank" in Finding Nemo. The "effect" added by a strong (and strong down deep!) sub will blow you away. It will not be "a little better", it will blow you away. Trust me. I went from dual Yamaha SW-215 8"ers to a single SVS 20-39 CS-Plus, and that is how I would describe the upgrade. I bet dual SW215s would be a decent upgrade from what your HTIB sub can do!

Keeping a quality (but basic) 12" as a minimum, is to be strongly preferred IMHO. All my suggestions will keep this in mind, and keep your budget intact.

So, here are my <specific> recommendations for your consideration:

A Pioneer 1015TX, or something else that is around $450, and:

1. SVS or HSU basic 12" sub, 501 side surrounds, SVS 5.0 speaker set.
2. SVS or HSU basic 12" sub, sell 501s on eBay, SVS 7.0 speaker set.
(just for fun) 3. A pair of AV-F3, a single AV-SC, and two pair of AV-BP2 (all for $520 shipped, from fluance.com), with an SVS 20-39 PC-Plus around to ensure that you actually feel what is meant to be felt (not just heard). With this setup, go ahead and just "re-gift" the 501s, or use them in a shrine dedicated to better profits through marketing! No money from their sale would be needed to put together this option. If you did sell them, consider it a cash bonus for your pre-purchase research. ;)

I honestly think that "3" would be a VERY enjoyable 7.1 HT speaker setup for <$1400 (shipped) if you just banked the money from the sale of the 501s, or even re-gifted them should you not want to bother with that.

However, if you did sell the Bose, you could add the ~$200 to your budget and change the sub in "3" to the PB12-Plus/2. It would just squeeze in. Talk about insuring you can feel the effects! I don't know, maybe that is my bass psychosis talking. Maybe you should just re-gift the 501s. Then, hopefully, the next recipient of those 501s will come here for advice on what to get to finish their HT setup! :eek:

:D

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Old 07-07-2006, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littleracers
Hello,

I am hoping for a little help. I got as a gift a few years back, a pair of Bose 501 V floor standing speakers. While there are many that dislike Bose out there, I am trying to use these speakers as a starting point to my system.

I plan on buying the Dennon AVR 3806 online within a few weeks. Along with this, I know I will need a decent Center Channel and then 4 surrounds and a sub. Currently I have a Sonly Sub from a HTIB kit that is a few years old. I may use it depending on how much it will cost for the 4 surrounds.

The rest of my system is a Optoma HD 72 firing on a 110" Carada screen in a complete light controlled setting.

Thanks for your help!
Is Sonly a typo for Sony? If so, the typical answer here would be to sell the Bose and the Sony and start over. I'm not sure if I can fault that.

If you chose to keep the Bose, I'd say stay with Bose to keep the timber or you might get a very distracting setup (especially when the other speakers sound better and draw your attention).

Read about the Sony Rootkit fiasco. http://boingboing.net/2005/11/14...stomer-te.html
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Old 07-07-2006, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathanb3478
Well, with $2K for speakers and receiver, do yourself a favor, and just switch component inputs on the receiver. This will allow you to cut your receiver budget down to ~$450 (1015TX), and up your speaker budget by 50%. I would not spend 1/4th of your entire audio budget on getting HDMI switching into the receiver. If you need that later, get a 5-way HDMI switcher (with remote!) for <$150 from monoprice.com then. The $400+ is better spent now on the speakers/sub, as they will provide much more obvious improvements.

I guess using the 501s as side surrounds might work ok, if you can place them appropriately in your room. You could certainly try it, then pick up a replacement pair of speakers in the future if it does not work well enough. This is all assuming you can put them where they need to be in your room with out any issues. A quick check of eBay shows me that you should certainly not expect more than $200 for the 501s, off that site (should you sell).

So, with the Pioneer receiver doing component source switching, and the projector switching between your one HDMI source and the component source that is coming out of the receiver, you would have a $1550 budget for HT speakers.

This is a very important point: A sub is a very big deal in HT. If you are spending four figures on your audio setup, do not "scrimp-and-save" on the sub. There is stuff in HT soundtracks that are effects you should feel, not really sounds you hear. Maybe that is why it was called the "Low Frequency Effects" channel, not the "Low Frequency Sounds" channel, huh? :D

Seriously, some 8" or less HTIB sub that is clacking, rattling, and chuffing does not convey what is supposed to happen when "Darla taps the tank" in Finding Nemo. The "effect" added by a strong (and strong down deep!) sub will blow you away. It will not be "a little better", it will blow you away. Trust me. I went from dual Yamaha SW-215 8"ers to a single SVS 20-39 CS-Plus, and that is how I would describe the upgrade. I bet dual SW215s would be a decent upgrade from what your HTIB sub can do!

Keeping a quality (but basic) 12" as a minimum, is to be strongly preferred IMHO. All my suggestions will keep this in mind, and keep your budget intact.

So, here are my <specific> recommendations for your consideration:

A Pioneer 1015TX, or something else that is around $450, and:

1. SVS or HSU basic 12" sub, 501 side surrounds, SVS 5.0 speaker set.
2. SVS or HSU basic 12" sub, sell 501s on eBay, SVS 7.0 speaker set.
(just for fun) 3. A pair of AV-F3, a single AV-SC, and two pair of AV-BP2 (all for $520 shipped, from fluance.com), with an SVS 20-39 PC-Plus around to ensure that you actually feel what is meant to be felt (not just heard). With this setup, go ahead and just "re-gift" the 501s, or use them in a shrine dedicated to better profits through marketing! No money from their sale would be needed to put together this option. If you did sell them, consider it a cash bonus for your pre-purchase research. ;)

I honestly think that "3" would be a VERY enjoyable 7.1 HT speaker setup for <$1400 (shipped) if you just banked the money from the sale of the 501s, or even re-gifted them should you not want to bother with that.

However, if you did sell the Bose, you could add the ~$200 to your budget and change the sub in "3" to the PB12-Plus/2. It would just squeeze in. Talk about insuring you can feel the effects! I don't know, maybe that is my bass psychosis talking. Maybe you should just re-gift the 501s. Then, hopefully, the next recipient of those 501s will come here for advice on what to get to finish their HT setup! :eek:

:D
I would REALLY have to agree with this. A good sub will be invisible, a bad sub will muddy EVERY speaker in your room. I found that even an M & K THX 150 muddied my system in a larger room, and ended up picking up a Sunfire TrueSub Signature that does better with both music and LFE for soundtracks.

Most of your choice should be based around the sub.

Read about the Sony Rootkit fiasco. http://boingboing.net/2005/11/14...stomer-te.html
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Old 07-08-2006, 03:13 PM

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Make sure you keep the SAME brand of smeaker consistant. Buy more Bose speakers otherwise do without.
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Old 07-08-2006, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
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Make sure you keep the SAME brand of smeaker consistant. Buy more Bose speakers otherwise do without.
The new Bose speakers share nothing with the 70's or 80's vintage 501's. There is probably nothing in their current lineup that will timber-match with them. I seriously doubt any new Bose speaker would be any better than an Axiom, Klipsch, Pardigm, or anything else, (and probably worse). In addition, another Direct/Reflecting speaker in the center channel would be a disaster. You would lose all the directional cues completely.

Bose 501's were not designed to be HT speakers. Nor are most Bose products. Amar likes to bounce sound around too much. HT speakers should have pinpoint localization. This provides solid directional cues for sound effects that pan around the listening space. Also, a pinpoint sound source for the center channel locks the dialogue onto the display. When you bounce sound off of all the adjacent walls, you disperse the directional cues and the listener loses the ability to localize sounds.

Sticking with Bose just because they are the same brand is akin to putting two flat Firestone tires on the back because the front tires are flat. :D

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Old 07-08-2006, 04:52 PM

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The Acoustimass systems are made for HT.
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Old 07-08-2006, 07:09 PM
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They might be "made for HT", but that Direct/Reflecting crap is inappropriate for HT.

Craig

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Old 07-08-2006, 08:05 PM
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Craig, you may want to read this before you consider posting another reply.

Sanjay

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Old 07-08-2006, 11:03 PM
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Sorry Sanjay, that link didn't work. Can you post it again? Thanks.

Craig

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Old 07-08-2006, 11:11 PM
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Never mind, I searched for his name. Thanks for the heads up.

Craig

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Old 07-08-2006, 11:17 PM
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i am not sure how many of you have heard this 501? i have and it was being used as front LR in a ht environment. my opinion is that it is a keeper. modern cheapo speakers designed for ht emphasis on highs and lows but no quality mids. 501 at least has the mids.

i would say get a good center and a hsu sub. then play with the 501 for front LR and if not satisfied then move the 501 to side surround and buy front LR same brand/model as the front center

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Old 07-08-2006, 11:24 PM
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littleracers,

I agree with the other posters' rec to put the bulk of your money into speakers and sub, don't overbuy on the receiver.
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Old 07-08-2006, 11:38 PM
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cpu8088,

I have heard the 501's, but it has been many, many years. My recollection of them is exactly as you describe: good midrange response. However, IIRC, they had very weak HF response with poor localization, and virtually zero bass response below about 200 Hz. I auditioned the 501's extensively before I bought my first "good" set of speakers, a set of Bose 901's. That turned out to be the biggest audio blunder I ever made. That stupid "equalizer" burned up two amps before I chucked the whole 901 system. At the time, I was convinced that the big wall of sound thrown off by the Bose Direct/Reflecting concept was really cool... until I heard what a speaker that can really image sounded like.

There are so many good, inexpensive speakers available today that have far greater frequency response, dynamics and imaging, that using these highly compromised speakers for an HT is a dubious proposition. (IMO)

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Old 07-09-2006, 12:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all of your posts.

It is overwhelmingly clear that they will not work in the HT setup. So I have listed them on Ebay...I am expecting to bring in about 175-200 as some of you have mentioned.

I did go to fluence. While I have not heard of these speakers before, I would not be opposed to something like this in my setup.

I definately hear you about the HDMI in the receiver. I have heard that a lot in another forum I posted on. I guess I was hoping to use an HDMI wire that I already have installed, but that may be later. I guarantee you that using a wire or not using a wire should not be the basis on the receiver purchase.

I will read some reviews on the setup you suggested in #3. I like the price and I think that I could make that work in my setup.

Thanks for your help...Think you could come over and help install it?

Just kidding.
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Old 07-09-2006, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littleracers
Thanks for your help...Think you could come over and help install it?

Just kidding.
I have a good amount of free time ATM. How close are you to Sacramento, CA? One quick note: Will work for food!

Seriously, I doubt you are anywhere near me, but you do not list your location in your profile, so who knows?

As to Fluance, they seem to have the basics covered. I have not heard them, but the few comments I have found by owners would not keep me from trying them, if I had the need for inexpensive speakers.

The enclosures (based on the weight specs) seem to be essentially as good as Axiom makes. The design choices (solid Mid/Tweeter or Woofer/Mid/Tweeter, vs gimmicky driver configurations) appear sound. I could not comment on driver or crossover quality, but buying from them is not a high loss proposition. They have an in home trial policy as good as most of the other Internet Direct companies.

I notice that it would only cost you ~$15 extra to order the AV-F3 first, see what it is like (quality and sound wise), then buy the center and surrounds if you like the AV-F3 enough to not return it. That also limits your "out of pocket" if you do not like the Fluance build or sound quality.

Regardless of how and what you do, good luck with it! Also, let us know how it turns out.

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Old 07-09-2006, 03:44 PM
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I've heard from a couple of people that the best speaker Fluance makes is actually their standalone bookshelf, the SX-6. All of their speakers are said to lean towards the bright side especially the combo speakers, with the bookshelf being the most neutral.

On the other hand with a $2K budget and 0% music use, you really have a wide array of great choices --- the Internet-direct speakers and subs in particular --- as long as you don't overbuy on the receiver.
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Old 07-09-2006, 09:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks again for the posts. I updated my profile. Mckinney, TX. Don't think you will be making the drive to come help.

I have read a lot of reviews on the Fluence and I think that they will satisfy my needs.

Originallu I was looking towards In-Walls, but sooo many ppl have talked me out of it. Now I am torn on the receiver. There was a good suggestion on the Pioneer for the 1015, but I see a 1016 is coming with HDMI for 600. Do you guys think it will be worth it or stick with the 1015?

Chris
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Old 07-10-2006, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by directvfreak2
Make sure you keep the SAME brand of smeaker consistant. Buy more Bose speakers otherwise do without.
Whoring Bose again eh? Wow, you are pathetic.

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Old 07-10-2006, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littleracers
Now I am torn on the receiver. There was a good suggestion on the Pioneer for the 1015, but I see a 1016 is coming with HDMI for 600. Do you guys think it will be worth it or stick with the 1015?
I wouldn't worry about HDMI, personally.
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Old 07-10-2006, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littleracers
Pioneer for the 1015, but I see a 1016 is coming with HDMI for 600. Do you guys think it will be worth it or stick with the 1015?

Chris
The only reason to wait for the 1016 is so that the 1015 gets discontinued and the great price available on pricegrabber.com gets even better. I wouldn't wait too long, or you risk a sell out on the 1015. That is my thought.

Are you planning a Fluance "test purchase"? Or are you planning to pick it all up at once?

Regardless, when you get them, put up a mini-review and let us know what you think.

Yeah, TX is too far. I will be in UT for a week at the end of this month, but even then it would be a pretty long drive to TX. Kinda what I expected. You'll do fine, though. If you have any placement or setup troubles, just post them here and you will find a way around them.

Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards.
-Vernon Sanders Law
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Old 07-10-2006, 05:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathanb3478
The only reason to wait for the 1016 is so that the 1015 gets discontinued and the great price available on gets even better. I wouldn't wait too long, or you risk a sell out on the 1015. That is my thought.

Are you planning a Fluance "test purchase"? Or are you planning to pick it all up at once?

Regardless, when you get them, put up a mini-review and let us know what you think.

Yeah, TX is too far. I will be in UT for a week at the end of this month, but even then it would be a pretty long drive to TX. Kinda what I expected. You'll do fine, though. If you have any placement or setup troubles, just post them here and you will find a way around them.

I think that I will go ahead and buy the set and bring it all in. I did go this past weekend and auditioned some items, but I did not find Fluence, nor did I expect to. I chose to go to the vastly overpriced Best Buy to hear the Def Tech's, and other stuff like that. I will tell you that they are so high expensive that it is not even funny. The AVR 3806 was almost $1400...Onine you can buy it for about $900. So that just give you an idea of how expensive they are....I think I will go with the pioneer 1015. I will just have to do some work on component cables though.

The builder did install what looks like regular coaxial cables, but what they tell me is that those cables can be finished out to be S-Video, or other component cables that I want.

So should I plan on buying component cables and replacing them or have them finish off the cables for me?
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Old 07-10-2006, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by littleracers
So should I plan on buying component cables and replacing them or have them finish off the cables for me?
Well, I suppose that would depend on whether the installer will charge you extra to finish the cables in there already as component cables. If they do not (included in what you already paid), easy answer. :D

If not... is it worth it to you? You can get good (and long) component cables at a forum sponser: monoprice.com

You have all the information on your situation (obviously), and would be in the best postion to answer your question. If there is something specific you need help with ("how much is an Xft component cable?", "anyone know how to do _______ yourself", etc), just let us all know.

Again, any specific questions we can help with, I am sure we are all willing. Also, give us a write up on all of it, when you get it all done! (Pics are (y)our friend, ;))

Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards.
-Vernon Sanders Law
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