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Old 12-10-2013, 01:00 PM
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Posting my Tvfool results here,

http://tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d46ae226d8f3876

I get the stations in the green and yellow now with a powered Terk antenna that looks like this

http://terk.com/indoor-tv-antennas/?sku=HDTVA

with rabbit ears. Its about 7 years old. Would like to go something less imposing like an indoor flat antenna. What would you suggest?

Presently cannot pick up 7.1.

6.1 and 24.1 are iffy at times.
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Old 12-12-2013, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wgerman View Post

Posting my Tvfool results here,

http://tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d46ae226d8f3876

I get the stations in the green and yellow now with a powered Terk antenna that looks like this

http://terk.com/indoor-tv-antennas/?sku=HDTVA

with rabbit ears. Its about 7 years old. Would like to go something less imposing like an indoor flat antenna. What would you suggest?

Presently cannot pick up 7.1.

6.1 and 24.1 are iffy at times.

Suggesting something without rabbit ears is difficult because you have 4 channels on VHF and are having difficulties with rf 7. If you have only used the Terk with the cable that came with it, you could add some additional cable and look for a better location in the room. In addition, 7-1 is your weakest VHF station according to TVFool. When you are having difficulties with this channel, try turning off everything in the room except the television. VHF is subject to electrical interference from all sorts of devices. If you can establish electrical noise as the problem with 7-1, then an amped flat antenna like the Flatwave might work. If electrical noise is not the issue with 7-1, rabbit ear combos are probably your best choice. Good Luck.
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Old 12-13-2013, 12:51 PM
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Yes rabbit ears are normally better for VHF, and usually better than those flat panels. Try the HDTVa with amp turned on or off. But be sure it is plugged in. And get a barrel splice and add a longer coax cable to find a better location, as suggested.
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Old 12-16-2013, 08:13 AM
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Thank you for the replies. Going to try the new Mohu Ultimate higher on the wall under a picture. Hoping going higher will pull in the VHF stations. And will check for appliances nearby the TV causing interference. Thank you again for the replies.
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Old 12-16-2013, 09:21 AM
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Unless Mohu re-designed the Leaf-s elements since last year (unlikely), you will find that "rabbit ears" will work better on VHF...

Leaf attempts to address this issue in their FAQs (http://store.gomohu.com/the-leaf-ultimate-hdtv-antenna.html)

I heard that the Leaf doesn't receive VHF or Hi-V band stations. Is this true?

This is false. The Leaf does receive VHF or Hi-V stations. The Leaf is optimized for UHF stations, which comprises about 95% of the TV stations today. The Leaf will still receive VHF stations but it will not be able to receive them from as far away as the UHF band stations.

Now, there's a bit of an incorrect statement in there because 74% of U.S. full-power stations, not 95% as stated, are transmitting on UHF assignments.

The statement "The Leaf will still receive VHF stations but it will not be able to receive them from as far away as the UHF band stations." is indeed true, but is grossly understated. Our range testing suggests that the Leaf's VHF response, when compared to the VHF element on our C2V, was anywhere from -10 to -30 dB below that of our dipole.

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Old 12-16-2013, 10:02 AM
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Unless Mohu re-designed the Leaf-s elements since last year (unlikely), you will find that "rabbit ears" will work better on VHF...

Leaf attempts to address this issue in their FAQs (http://store.gomohu.com/the-leaf-ultimate-hdtv-antenna.html)

I heard that the Leaf doesn't receive VHF or Hi-V band stations. Is this true?

This is false. The Leaf does receive VHF or Hi-V stations. The Leaf is optimized for UHF stations, which comprises about 95% of the TV stations today. The Leaf will still receive VHF stations but it will not be able to receive them from as far away as the UHF band stations.

Now, there's a bit of an incorrect statement in there because 74% of U.S. full-power stations, not 95% as stated, are transmitting on UHF assignments.

The statement "The Leaf will still receive VHF stations but it will not be able to receive them from as far away as the UHF band stations." is indeed true, but is grossly understated. Our range testing suggests that the Leaf's VHF response, when compared to the VHF element on our C2V, was anywhere from -10 to -30 dB below that of our dipole.

Was that using the amplified version? The Ultimate?
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Old 12-16-2013, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by wgerman View Post

Was that using the amplified version? The Ultimate?

Doesn't matter because the fundamental reception performance, or lack thereof, is due to the design of the elements, not the addition of an amplifier.

However, to answer your question, both antennas were tested using the same external amplifier which would tend to equalize their respective performance capabilities.

If you want an indoor amplified antenna that does a "very respectable" (my observation) job on both high-VHF and UHF in a compact package, go to Walmart and pick up a GE 34763. Orient it so that it horizontal and perpendicular to the direction of the incoming signals.

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Old 12-16-2013, 11:14 AM
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Doesn't matter because the fundamental reception performance, or lack thereof, is due to the design of the elements, not the addition of an amplifier.

However, to answer your question, both antennas were tested using the same external amplifier which would tend to equalize their respective performance capabilities.

If you want an indoor amplified antenna that does a "very respectable" (my observation) job on both high-VHF and UHF in a compact package, go to Walmart and pick up a GE 34763. Orient it so that it horizontal and perpendicular to the direction of the incoming signals.

Thank you for the advice, is there a link to your tests or reviews of antennas?
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Old 12-16-2013, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by wgerman View Post

Thank you for the advice, is there a link to your tests or reviews of antennas?

No, they were produced for internal use. I'm just offering my personal observations of the data.

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Old 12-17-2013, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADTech View Post

Unless Mohu re-designed the Leaf-s elements since last year (unlikely), you will find that "rabbit ears" will work better on VHF...

Leaf attempts to address this issue in their FAQs (http://store.gomohu.com/the-leaf-ultimate-hdtv-antenna.html)

I heard that the Leaf doesn't receive VHF or Hi-V band stations. Is this true?

This is false. The Leaf does receive VHF or Hi-V stations. The Leaf is optimized for UHF stations, which comprises about 95% of the TV stations today. The Leaf will still receive VHF stations but it will not be able to receive them from as far away as the UHF band stations.

Now, there's a bit of an incorrect statement in there because 74% of U.S. full-power stations, not 95% as stated, are transmitting on UHF assignments.

The statement "The Leaf will still receive VHF stations but it will not be able to receive them from as far away as the UHF band stations." is indeed true, but is grossly understated. Our range testing suggests that the Leaf's VHF response, when compared to the VHF element on our C2V, was anywhere from -10 to -30 dB below that of our dipole.

Rabbit ears work better for VHF than the Leaf, but not always. If the problem is electrical noise, I'm convinced that rabbit ears or unshielded twin-lead are magnets for EMI. This is why currently I receive rf 9 with a Flatwave in a room where rabbit ears and the classic bowtie have both failed. VHF reception was identical with those two antennas. I have a router in that room that is likely the culprit. Digital tuners have a lot of trouble with electrical noise on VHF. The Leaf managed rf 10 (ABC) only.

Essentially, an inferior VHF antenna is the only thing I've found that works for my local PBS. It's like adding an attenuator in high signal areas. Less (electrical noise) can be more.
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Old 12-17-2013, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by deltaguy View Post

Rabbit ears work better for VHF than the Leaf, but not always. If the problem is electrical noise, I'm convinced that rabbit ears or unshielded twin-lead are magnets for EMI. This is why currently I receive rf 9 with a Flatwave in a room where rabbit ears and the classic bowtie have both failed. VHF reception was identical with those two antennas. I have a router in that room that is likely the culprit. Digital tuners have a lot of trouble with electrical noise on VHF. The Leaf managed rf 10 (ABC) only. Essentially, an inferior VHF antenna is the only thing I've found that works for my local PBS. It's like adding an attenuator in high signal areas. Less (electrical noise) can be more.
Like you, I've found that the Winegard Flatwave, which is also sold by Solid Signal as the HD Blade, receives decent reception on high VHF stations as well as on UHF.

In a different room, I have used a Philips HDTV1 Silver Sensor - also sold in the past by Zenith, a design licensed by Antiference of the UK. In that one room but NOT in the other room, I have actually received dependable and stable reception on the three high-VHF transmitters in my media market (RF 9, 11 and 13). That is surprising since the Silver Sensor is definitely a UHF-only aerial. The UHF-only aspect is the key reason the Silver Sensor has been withdrawn from the American market. You might be able to find a used Silver Sensor and try it out, certainly it's extremely directional which is good if you are prone to multipath. In fact, the Silver Sensor is far more directional than the Flatwave/HD Blade or the Mohu Leaf.
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Old 12-17-2013, 03:17 PM
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The Terk HDTVi is the same Silver sensor design for UHF and adds rabbit ears for VHF. And there is an amped version, the HDTVa. And I have also found the Winegard Flatwave to perform better on HiVHF than the Mohu Leaf. The Flatwave antenna is sold at Home Depot and the amped version is sold at Costco. And there is an Alphaline brand version sold at Sears. And the HD Blade versions from Solid Signal as mentioned are also the same as the Winegard Flatwave.
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Old 12-23-2013, 10:06 AM
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Curious, I am about to upgrade my 6 year old Samsung LCD to a new gen LCD in a couple of weeks. Will my reception improve with the new TV? Has tuner technology changed that much?
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Old 12-23-2013, 10:52 AM
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I would venture a guess as to say that all new tv's from the major mfrs (LG, Sony, Samsung, Panasonic) have excellent ATSC tuners in them. We bought an LG a couple of years back because prior to that, we had an LG ATSC STB that was absolutely flawless and wanted the same, or better, in our first LCD. We weren't disappointed. However, as has been pointed out many times before, location is the key to OTA reception. Where you locate your antenna, in-home or rooftop (preferable) and what your local terrain and obstacles are around you. Distance (LOS) is also critical.
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Old 12-25-2013, 04:21 PM
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I just read this whole thread and the best I got was that you've got a lot of options.

I'm in the same boat (didn't post a TV Fool report because I'm trying not to hijack the thread) and I can't say I found the answers particularly helpful.

Anyone suggest a 'short list' of best antennas?

I'm on the second floor of a condo, the TV is in the back but the stations are in the direction of the front. There is no practical way to run a wire to put an antenna in the front window.
A UHF loops gives me pretty good reception, some breakups. My biggest nemesis is the only ABC station in the area is Hi VHF.

Terk? Does the Flatwave (FL5000?) need to be placed in a window facing the stations? I'm trying to make sense of things here and extrapolate it to my needs.
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Old 12-26-2013, 02:14 PM
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I just read this whole thread and the best I got was that you've got a lot of options.

I'm in the same boat (didn't post a TV Fool report because I'm trying not to hijack the thread) and I can't say I found the answers particularly helpful.

Anyone suggest a 'short list' of best antennas?

I'm on the second floor of a condo, the TV is in the back but the stations are in the direction of the front. There is no practical way to run a wire to put an antenna in the front window.
A UHF loops gives me pretty good reception, some breakups. My biggest nemesis is the only ABC station in the area is Hi VHF.

Terk? Does the Flatwave (FL5000?) need to be placed in a window facing the stations? I'm trying to make sense of things here and extrapolate it to my needs.

The Flatwave can work in a difficult room with no correct facing window for Hi VHF. I'm getting rf 9 & 10 with one here. The correct aim/height/location in the room is different for both of these channels and neither aim/height/location is correct for all of the UHF stations from the same broadcast towers. If you haven't tried a pair of rabbit ears, you could probably borrow one from friends or family. They should work better for Hi VHF, but don't always. Good Luck.
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Old 12-27-2013, 08:18 PM
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The consensus seems to be the Wingegard FL5500A is better than the Mohu Leafs. Why would that be? They use the same architecture.
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Old 12-27-2013, 08:29 PM
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The consensus seems to be the Wingegard FL5500A is better than the Mohu Leafs. Why would that be? They use the same architecture.

The Flatwave and the HD Blade are identical, but the Leaf is a different smaller design. For what it's worth, I have broadcasters on rf 35 & 40 with the Leaf being the better performer. The Flatwave is better on a couple of UHF frequencies here as well. Getting something that works for you is all that really matters.
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Old 12-27-2013, 08:30 PM
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And one more question, will hanging an antenna like the Winegard behind a picture on the wall to gain height effect its performance?
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Old 12-27-2013, 08:59 PM
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And one more question, will hanging an antenna like the Winegard behind a picture on the wall to gain height effect its performance?

You can try it with and without the picture to find out. At least here, an indoor antenna in a fixed location has never worked consistently for all channels from Walnut Grove. I would count on needing to move the antenna initially in order to find the best spot in the room. What's best for one channel may not work for another even it's from the same tower. There's a learning curve necessary for indoor reception.
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Old 12-31-2013, 01:56 PM
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I want to thank everyone for the help. Picked up a Winegard Flatwave at Home Depot for $29. Works great.
Tried a bunch of locations including against a window. The best position? Flat on the floor underneath a dresser 6 feet away from my TV.

Picking up stations both north and south of me about 18-22 miles away including some difficult to receive stations and VHF.

Thanks again, a great inexpensive solution.
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Old 01-07-2014, 06:39 PM
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Visited my daughter in the San Jose area for Thanksgiving. "Hey, let's check in on the NFL games." Can't do it ....no cable and no antenna. We ended up watching an internet stream of the games from Europe. So for Christmas I bought her a AmazonBasics High Performance Ultra Thin Indoor HDTV Antenna. Had good reviews and only $35 with a good return policy. She recieves 35+ channels now, several in HD, with great picture quality. Apparently all of her friends (early 20's) that work at big tech companies in silicon valley are strictly Netflix/Hulu/Internet streamers without cable TV. She said once they see how well this flat, unobtrusive antenna works, they will be buying one too.
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Old 01-07-2014, 11:12 PM
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Fandu - For $29 you could have just driven to Home Depot and bought the same antenna under the Winegard Flatwave name.
http://homedepot.com/p/Winegard-Flatwave-Razor-Thin-Indoor-HDTV-Antenna-FL5000H/203972854?keyword=winegard+flatwave
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Old 01-08-2014, 09:16 AM
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I should have checked this thread sooner smile.gif Good to see a similar antenna is working well for you too.
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Old 01-08-2014, 10:38 AM
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I should have checked this thread sooner smile.gif Good to see a similar antenna is working well for you too.

Just curious but where in San Jose? We have been OTA only for over 30 years with perfect reception (but our antenna is roof-mounted, not indoor).
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Old 01-08-2014, 11:15 AM
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"Downtown" Fremont, walking distance to BART. Has antenna attached to sliding glass door on 3rd floor.

Go Spartans images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT2P2Kb03d2wMAnHu_5E8LjW02HLqS4luLnxuM2r2m3aXkBaRf6kHADVPTZbA
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Old 01-08-2014, 01:30 PM
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^^^^ nice! Alumnus myself. So's my wife and son. Fremont can be tough but if she's on the third floor that's about 30' or so from ground level so she's apparently high enough to get the Sutro and San Bruno stations. We're out in Evergreen (SE San Jose) so I have a perfect LOS up the Bay to Sutro/San Bruno.
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Old 01-17-2014, 07:10 PM
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Hi all;

Guess I'll join the party and ask for help. I'm on the top floor of a building with concrete floors and ceiling. My tv is on the north end of the room and my only window faces east.

here is my TVfool report
http://tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d5b947ac2e15a6f

Looking for indoor only as outdoor is prohibited in my co-op

Thank you
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Old 01-17-2014, 07:26 PM
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^^^^ I would post your TVFool results in the HDTV-Local forum which is specific to your area. You're more apt to get better help there from folks in your area and recommendations on which antennas work best for them. I didn't think co-op's could prohibit outdoor antennas if they were reasonable in size.
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Old 01-18-2014, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by T/O View Post

Hi all;

Guess I'll join the party and ask for help. I'm on the top floor of a building with concrete floors and ceiling. My tv is on the north end of the room and my only window faces east.

here is my TVfool report
http://tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d5b947ac2e15a6f

Looking for indoor only as outdoor is prohibited in my co-op

Thank you

Since you will have to rely on either reflections off other buildings or whatever signals might penetrate your concrete and steel box, odds are poor that anything will work reliably. Often, if you're on the wrong side of the building in such a situation, you're often facing very long odds.
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