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post #1 of 19 Old 10-11-2004, 03:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Right now I have a pedestal sump, It looks to be more than 5 years old and the thing is LOUD. There is a somewhat high water table in my area, so the pump runs a few times whenever it rains. I was planning to frame around it and insulate to dampen the sound, but now I'm thinking I should just rip it out and put a new submersible in. My question is, if I go ahead and get a submersible, can I expect it to be a lot quieter?

Also, I read the whole sump thread from January, and some people said not to buy a sump from the home center. I notice Home Depot carries a cast iron, 1/2HP Flotec sump with full lifetime warranty ($169). I'm wondering if that is a decent pump, or if I would be better off going to a plumbing supply store?

Thanks
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post #2 of 19 Old 10-11-2004, 03:46 PM
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I don't think it really matters where you buy, but what you buy. What you should do is give Flotec a call and explain your situation. That's what I did when we bought this POS house 18 months ago and discovered the previous numbskulls, err...owners installed the wrong pump. It wouldn't START to pump until there was an inch or two of water on the floor! Give them a call, they're really helpful at Flotec.
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post #3 of 19 Old 10-11-2004, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fatman513
I don't think it really matters where you buy, but what you buy. What you should do is give Flotec a call and explain your situation. That's what I did when we bought this POS house 18 months ago and discovered the previous numbskulls, err...owners installed the wrong pump. It wouldn't START to pump until there was an inch or two of water on the floor! Give them a call, they're really helpful at Flotec.
:eek: Was the float switch not installed correctly? How did the pump not start until there was an inch of water on the floor?
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post #4 of 19 Old 10-11-2004, 04:41 PM
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Yes - submersibles are pretty quiet. But logic stands to reason that the larger the pump, the louder it'll be. While you're in there, you might want to consider a battery backup pump as well.

My last house had a Little Giant submersible pump that burned out after about 3 years (we bought the house new) - I replaced it with a 1/2 hp Rigid pump. When we moved into our current house the builder had put in a 1/4 hp pump - it ran constantly before they backfilled, so I pulled that and replaced it with a 1/2 hp Flotec. The guy at Home Depot said that the 1/2hp Flotec was a little better (more reliable?) than the Rigid. I don't hear the Flotec run, but it's also in a sealed pit.

In both houses I also put in the mid-model Basement Watchdog backup pump. I sleep MUCH better during monster storms.

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post #5 of 19 Old 10-11-2004, 05:26 PM
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What happened was during the home inspection the pump wasn't working so we asked them to replace it. Well they went to HoDepot and picked up any old pump and put it in there.

The fella at Flotec said the model they installed wasn't designed to start pumping until the water level was at 14" or something like that. He said I should get the model that starts to pump at 6".
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post #6 of 19 Old 10-11-2004, 06:41 PM
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I sell sump pumps (along with many other things) for a living.

The quietest pump I have ever heard (and it's in my basement) is made by Barnes pumps. It's a 1/2 HP and puts out near 4000 GPH. I have had people complain that they can't hear it, so how do they know it's working? Can't please everyone...

Get yourself a battery backup, too. And don't go cheap, the <$200 ones at Home Depot are glorified bilge pumps. Check out the Wayne water Systems isp-40. Again, it's in my basement.

If you can't find either of these locally, shoot me a PM and I can ship it to you.

Oh, I forgot...Flotec/Simer pumps are junk. (IMHO)
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post #7 of 19 Old 10-11-2004, 07:19 PM
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ROFLMAO. Mr. Leonard your post was so straight and to the point I just had to laugh out loud reading it. I'll check those out because I never replaced the unit the previous owners installed. Even after the 5 inches of rain we had last May the sump was as dry as a squirrel's mouth on a hot tin roof.
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post #8 of 19 Old 10-11-2004, 07:36 PM
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http://hydromatic.com/sump/su_wdva1-.html

take a look at the hydromatic DA-1 . It uses either a piggyback float switch or a pressure diaphram switch. We primarily sell the pressure switch type. You never have to worry about the float switch getting hung up. The pump turns on a couple inches above the pump on most diameter crocks.

It spins a lower rpm than the Barnes models.

Very quiet.........like the barnes pumps, you can't even hardly hear it when it runs.

up to 48 gallons per minute. I've rarely seen a burned out motor on a hydromatic. The pressure switches seem to have a better life than most of the mechanical floats on the market.

The biggest advantage of the hydromatic pumps is the piggyback style switches. If a switch goes bad and you are in a emergency situation with water coming into the hole, you can simply unplug the pump from the switch and plug it directly into the wall. The pump will run nonstop until you are able to replace the switch. If a switch fails on a Barnes pump, guess what..........you are bummin......... you have to then rely on whatever backup type pump you have.

The best backups currently on the market are a water driven pump called the Guardian. If you have city water pressure, then that is the pump you want.
http://bright.net/~pagreve/guardian.htm

I don't know who this guy is selling the pump........ I just found an online link for you.
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post #9 of 19 Old 10-11-2004, 07:48 PM
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I second the recommendation to get a battery backup, preferably one w/ an audible alarm that'll trigger if the water level rises above a certain level.
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post #10 of 19 Old 10-11-2004, 08:52 PM
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If you have a well and not city water, then of course the only alternative is the less superior battery backup. A self starting natural gas generator triggered by a high water level alarm would be the ultimate though. Then you could power a second hydromatic pump in the crock.

Battery backup pumps have too many weaknesses in my opinion.

1st ......... a finite battery life.........50 to 90 bucks when you have to get a new battery.

second.......... very low gallon discharge.

third.............. can't pump much of a head

fourth............ they only last at the most 5 to 6 hours......... and that is if your battery is fairly new and has a full charge.

city water pressure never goes away.......... even in a power outage.

5th............. the switches really suck.

6th................ when you need them to work.............they don't.
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post #11 of 19 Old 10-11-2004, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ckaudio
http://hydromatic.com/sump/su_wdva1-.html

take a look at the hydromatic DA-1 . It uses either a piggyback float switch or a pressure diaphram switch. We primarily sell the pressure switch type. You never have to worry about the float switch getting hung up. The pump turns on a couple inches above the pump on most diameter crocks.

It spins a lower rpm than the Barnes models.

Very quiet.........like the barnes pumps, you can't even hardly hear it when it runs.

up to 48 gallons per minute. I've rarely seen a burned out motor on a hydromatic. The pressure switches seem to have a better life than most of the mechanical floats on the market.

The biggest advantage of the hydromatic pumps is the piggyback style switches. If a switch goes bad and you are in a emergency situation with water coming into the hole, you can simply unplug the pump from the switch and plug it directly into the wall. The pump will run nonstop until you are able to replace the switch. If a switch fails on a Barnes pump, guess what..........you are bummin......... you have to then rely on whatever backup type pump you have.

The best backups currently on the market are a water driven pump called the Guardian. If you have city water pressure, then that is the pump you want.
http://bright.net/~pagreve/guardian.htm

I don't know who this guy is selling the pump........ I just found an online link for you.
Good point on the piggyback switch. The barnes has a piggyback switch as well.

The Guardian line works well in areas with high water pressure (like you said, in the city.) Some cities have good pressure for this unit, others, not so hot. It's not as easy to install as a standard backup pump, though. We don't recommend the water-siphoning pumps.

Edit: just saw your other post. You are very misinformed on battery packup pumps and batteries. The latest battery backup pumps can push water as well as a 1/2 hp primary pump. Sealed Lead Acid marine batteries will last up to 10 years with no maintenance whatsoever. The ISP40 backup unit runs over 72 hours on a single charge cycling once per minute! (that's really heavy usage) Like I said before, I sell materials to professionals who repair foundations and do waterproofing.

Anyways, I'll let this be. If anyone wants my recommendations, just shoot me a PM.

PS. ckaudio, your theater is excellent!
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post #12 of 19 Old 10-11-2004, 09:18 PM
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Oh, thanks for the info on the battery backup........haven't seen that one. I'll have to check it out. Fortunately, I don't have to worry about my theater flooding............ its on the main floor.
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post #13 of 19 Old 10-11-2004, 09:20 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm definitely looking for a battery backup as well, in fact that was what got me started. I just bought a 5.5kw generator and finished installing a Gentran transfer switch, but wanted an alternate solution for the sump in case the power fails and we're not home. I was planning to go with the mid-level watchdog system sold at HD (~$230), but I'm not sure now. Another concern is the charger. I know some work off a trickle charge, but that will fry the battery over time. I only want it to charge when the voltage drops below a certain level. Do the ones being discussed here all work that way?


jeffleonard-
I know someone locally that will sell me a Zoeller "Mighty-Mate" pump. It's about the same price as the Flotech, and specs look good (1/3HP, all cast iron including the vortex impeller, upper and lower oil fed bearings, passes 1/2" solids, etc). Have you heard anything about this brand?
I also forgot to mention my sump pit is 11X16 and 18 deep, so my options are limited.

About water driven pumps, having an open water feed directly into the sump pit has me a little worried. I understand these connect with PVC fip threads, and I've never had a garden hose that hasn't leaked.
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post #14 of 19 Old 10-11-2004, 09:32 PM
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http://waynepumps.com/products/product.php?ISP40

it says that 2 12 volt batteries fully charged will pump 20,000 gallons.

It doesn't say at which head pressure. At 0 head pressure, which I don't see how you can have 0 head pressure, it pumps 3500 gallons per hour.

More likely is the 5 ft of head which claims 2900 gallons per hour.

So, even if at 20,000 gallons of water pumped until battery voltage can no longer supply enough to the pump, that would only yield 6.9 hours of pumping at 2900 gallons per hour steady state.

Kicking on and off even in 1 minute intervals.........On for a minute, off for a minute then repeat would only give around 14 hours......... highly unlikely............... so I guess I don't know how you came up with 72 hours with no electricity. Not even 0 head pressure would give you that length of duty time.

Please explain.
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post #15 of 19 Old 10-12-2004, 08:47 AM
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Chris,

Zoellers are good pumps. I think you're looking at a M53, which I also sell. That pump has a good track record with us. It doesn't have the piggyback switch which was discussed, otherwise, it is a solid pump. No piggyback means bad switch=pull pump & replace or rebuild switch. In other words, a big PITA. The Zoeller is not as quiet as the Barnes.

CKaudio,

The ISP40 ran in my warehouse over 72 hrs. as I described. The pump doesn't run for a minute at a time. It kicked on, ran for a few seconds, then stopped. I pumped up 10 feet into another basin that drained back into the basin with the pump. It was around 13 ft. of dynamic head with the elbows and check valves. A normal sump basin doesn't hold enough water for most pumps to run continuously. (Unless you're built on a fresh-water spring or something.) If your sump pump runsnon-stop for that long, you're going to have bigger problems. (Like your house floating away).

OK, I'm done debating the merits of various sump pumps.
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post #16 of 19 Old 10-12-2004, 09:39 AM
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I had the builder basic sump pump replaced with a Zoeller based on plumber recommendation. The builder special was hammering away and making a real racket. I can't hear the new one unless I'm standing next to it.

I also had a basic battery back-up installed. As food for thought If you can't use the water pressure driven systems as suggested, consider your back up plans. If it ever starts raining for 40 days and 40 nights again, before you get your ark built you can always keep recharging batteries in your car. I've even thought about just running a couple of wires outside to attach to my car. Luckily I have a walkout basement and the ground slopes away from my house. I can also hook up some hoses and use a gravity based siphon to empty my sump pump reservoir if it get's really bad and we lose power for an extended period.

All of this assumes you are home.
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post #17 of 19 Old 10-12-2004, 10:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by jeffleonard
Chris,

Zoellers are good pumps. I think you're looking at a M53, which I also sell. That pump has a good track record with us. It doesn't have the piggyback switch which was discussed, otherwise, it is a solid pump. No piggyback means bad switch=pull pump & replace or rebuild switch. In other words, a big PITA. The Zoeller is not as quiet as the Barnes.
Actually I was looking at the model 57, not 53. I guess the difference is the 53 has a cast iron body, but polypropylene base and plastic impeller. The 57 is cast iron for both. Not sure how important that is on these pumps, but I know I've had to replace the plastic impeller on my boat's bilge pump twice.
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post #18 of 19 Old 10-12-2004, 10:46 AM
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Chris,

You've got a PM.
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post #19 of 19 Old 10-12-2004, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chriš
I know someone locally that will sell me a Zoeller "Mighty-Mate" pump. It's about the same price as the Flotech, and specs look good (1/3HP, all cast iron including the vortex impeller, upper and lower oil fed bearings, passes 1/2" solids, etc). Have you heard anything about this brand?
I also forgot to mention my sump pit is 11X16 and 18 deep, so my options are limited.
I have had a Zoeller pump in my sump for about 12 years now. No problems what so ever. I would recommend them any day.

As for backup, I have a gas generator big enough to run almost the whole house (Kubota 6.5 kW gasoline model) and a proper transfer switch in the main breaker panel.

Mike
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