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Old 02-17-2017, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Wink 2017 Vizio M-Series Anticipation Thread

Matt McRae has stated that "The VIZIO 2017 press event is on April 24th in New York and we will be pre-announcing some significant features that will roll out this Summer." It is unclear at this point what exactly the 2017 M-series will be and whether there will be some form of a re-badged "2017" P-series as well. We will know more on April 24th if not sooner.

The rest of this thread is purely speculation right now. It will be updated with accurate information as it is available.

In the past Vizio has replaced their previous year’s P-series with a slightly upgraded M-series at a lower initial price and with larger screen sizes as well.

The Vizio CTO has already stated in writing that there will be no 2017 P-series released in the spring and that the P-series is on a two year cycle instead. He also stated that they will still announce new products in the spring.

Predictions for 2017 M-series. **********Purely Speculation Right Now***********

1. HDR10 plus Dolby Vision support just like the 2016 M and P series. No HDMI 2.1 at release. Future upgrade to HDMI 2.1 not likely.

2. No Quantum dot technology and similar color performance to 2016 P-series.

3. Similar FALD Local dimming performance to 2016 P-series before beta release firmware.

4. Similar brightness performance to 2016 P-series.

5. Ultra low gaming input lag on HDMI 5. However, unlike the 2016 P-series the 2017 M-series will support HDR on HDMI 5 and it will offer exceptional input lag with true 4:4:4 subsampling. Vizio puts a high priority on gaming with their displays.

6. 1080p @ 120 FPS 4:4:4 supported on HDMI 5 as well as true 4K @ 60 FPS 4:4:4 with exceptional input lag.

7. Improvement to Noise Reduction and Video Compression algorithms as well as improved sharpening controls.

8. Improved Film(ie: 24 FPS) interpolation controls. This will allow users to improve motion handling in 24 FPS sources without causing adverse artifacts or creating too much SOE.

9. Same Remote and casting experience as 2016 P-series except for support for Youtube HDR decoding will be included this time.

10. Sizes ranging from 42 inches all the way up to 85 inches.

11. Prices ranging from $900 for 55” to $5000 for 85”.

So let’s hear what your predictions or wish lists are. Would you be interested in an 85” 4K display for $5000 from Vizio with these specifications? Do you think it will have more than this? Do you think it will have less than this? Do you think this model will be more or less reliable than in years past?

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Old 02-17-2017, 12:30 PM
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Wait - there won't be a P this year?

If so then I guess I can eliminate Vizio from contention. I guess I'll have to wait until summer to get a reasonably priced 940E or Z9D. ugh.
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Old 02-17-2017, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Wait - there won't be a P this year?

If so then I guess I can eliminate Vizio from contention. I guess I'll have to wait until summer to get a reasonably priced 940E or Z9D. ugh.
What does it matter if they call it a P or an M? The 2014 P-series was almost identical to the 2015 M-series. I had both in my house at one point and I actually preferred the 2015 M-series.

Basically the rule of thumb with Vizio is that if you are in an even year then the P-series is the TV to have. If you are in an odd year then the M-series is probably basically the same as the previous P-series but at a lower cost and with more size options.
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Old 02-17-2017, 06:02 PM
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So should the number of dimming zones go up to 128 then? Also, will the be an 80"? That was the only bad thing about the 2016 P series.
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Old 02-17-2017, 10:11 PM

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What does it matter if they call it a P or an M? The 2014 P-series was almost identical to the 2015 M-series. I had both in my house at one point and I actually preferred the 2015 M-series.

Basically the rule of thumb with Vizio is that if you are in an even year then the P-series is the TV to have. If you are in an odd year then the M-series is probably basically the same as the previous P-series but at a lower cost and with more size options.
Except the 2015 M-series had half the dimming zones of the 2014 P-series. It's to be seen if that occurs with the 2017 M-series, and if they are going to go full 10-bit panel or stick with a pseudo 10-bit panel.
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Old 02-19-2017, 08:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Except the 2015 M-series had half the dimming zones of the 2014 P-series. It's to be seen if that occurs with the 2017 M-series, and if they are going to go full 10-bit panel or stick with a pseudo 10-bit panel.
It had half the dimming zones and yet it still had all of the performance.

Number of dimming zones is way over rated. Once you get to a certain point you start to hit diminishing returns. The local dimming of the 2014 P-series and 2015 M-series was very similar in my opinion.
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Old 02-19-2017, 10:20 AM

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It had half the dimming zones and yet it still had all of the performance.

Number of dimming zones is way over rated. Once you get to a certain point you start to hit diminishing returns. The local dimming of the 2014 P-series and 2015 M-series was very similar in my opinion.
So, do you think that the number of dimming zones in your 2015 versus the dimming zones in your 2016 P-series is also fairly similar? And have you compared it to something like a Z9D?

I agree that there is a point of diminishing returns, especially for people coming from an edge-lit TV, but it is probably more noticeable to people that have an OLED or plasma.
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Old 02-19-2017, 11:04 AM - Thread Starter
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So, do you think that the number of dimming zones in your 2015 versus the dimming zones in your 2016 P-series is also fairly similar? And have you compared it to something like a Z9D?

I agree that there is a point of diminishing returns, especially for people coming from an edge-lit TV, but it is probably more noticeable to people that have an OLED or plasma.
I think the increased number of dimming zones in the 2016 P75 contributes somewhat to some of its uniformity issues. During panning the 2016 P-series is slightly worse than the 2015 M-series because it has very noticeable vertical dark bars where the zones transition. It is a well documented issue with the 2016 P-series. It appears on the 2015 M-series as well but not to the same extent that I have experienced with the 2016 P-series.

I have viewed the Z9D in the store many times. I like that TV very much I just can't afford it. I haven't viewed in my own home though so I can't really compare it with the TVs I currently own(2014 50" P-series, 2015 M55, 3 2015 E-series in various sizes, 2016 P75). I had a 2015 M80 as well but sold it in favor of the P75.
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Old 02-19-2017, 11:46 AM

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I think the increased number of dimming zones in the 2016 P75 contributes somewhat to some of its uniformity issues. During panning the 2016 P-series is slightly worse than the 2015 M-series because it has very noticeable vertical dark bars where the zones transition. It is a well documented issue with the 2016 P-series. It appears on the 2015 M-series as well but not to the same extent that I have experienced with the 2016 P-series.

I have viewed the Z9D in the store many times. I like that TV very much I just can't afford it. I haven't viewed in my own home though so I can't really compare it with the TVs I currently own(2014 50" P-series, 2015 M55, 3 2015 E-series in various sizes, 2016 P75). I had a 2015 M80 as well but sold it in favor of the P75.
I know, I saw you quite a bit in the M-series thread until you bought the P-series. I sold mine shortly after and went to the KS8000 and KS9000, though I am considering selling them in favor of a P-series or an OLED.
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Old 02-19-2017, 12:17 PM
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The #1 area of improvement the 2017 M series must have is in the brightness dept. 2016 M series really lacks here. Sitting next to a P series, running the same Dolby Vision demo, it's like night and day.

If these brands are going to enable and tout HDR/DV as features, then they don't need to kneecap their products in terms of brightness to the point that it renders HDR/DV useless.

With Hisense moving up market, Vizio is going to really need to bring it this year with the M.
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Old 02-20-2017, 07:40 AM - Thread Starter
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I know, I saw you quite a bit in the M-series thread until you bought the P-series. I sold my shortly after and went to the KS8000 and KS9000, though I am considering selling them in favor of a P-series or an OLED.
At the very least wait and see what the 2017 M-series will be like. In the past Vizio has basically repackaged the previous P-series TV as a new M-series with mild tweaks for less money in bigger sizes. I expect that to be the case again this year.

I anticipate that the 2017 M-series will be announced in March. Most likely it will be announced on a Monday and start shipping in certain sizes right after that.

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Old 03-08-2017, 05:21 PM

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Why is it taking so long to find out anything this year? When I bought my E series in 2014, I picked it up the first week of March 2014. Here we are in March again and we don't even know what goddamn models are coming yet? This pisses me off.
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Old 03-08-2017, 05:30 PM
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Why is it taking so long to find out anything this year? When I bought my E series in 2014, I picked it up the first week of March 2014. Here we are in March again and we don't even know what goddamn models are coming yet? This pisses me off.
2016Ms didnt hit the street until mid to late june. They were announced i think the month before or late april.
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Old 03-09-2017, 08:19 PM
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I like the 2015 Ms better than the 2016 Ms.

The 2015 Ms were arguably better than the 2014 Ps, but that is parsing things pretty minutely...I call them on par.

The 2016 Ps and Ms had no tuners and went to tablets for remotes and streaming processing...which was a bummer.

Hopefully the 2017 Ms are like the 2016 Ps but with 64 (half the no. of) zones and traditional remote with integrated ATSC tuners again.

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Old 03-09-2017, 08:25 PM
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Ive got my eye on the 2017 Vizio M series and the 2017 TCL P series. And the 2017 LG OLED B series.
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Old 03-10-2017, 05:24 AM
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Why is it taking so long to find out anything this year? When I bought my E series in 2014, I picked it up the first week of March 2014. Here we are in March again and we don't even know what goddamn models are coming yet? This pisses me off.
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Old 03-10-2017, 09:00 AM
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It'll be interesting to see what a M70 would be priced at. The E70 is $1,099 so maybe it will be in the mid thousand range. I guess we will see. I just bought my 2016 M70 Sunday and have three months to return if the new line up warrants it.

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Old 03-10-2017, 09:14 AM

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I like the 2015 Ms better than the 2016 Ms.

The 2015 Ms were arguably better than the 2014 Ps, but that is parsing things pretty minutely...I call them on par.

The 2016 Ps and Ms had no tuners and went to tablets for remotes and streaming processing...which was a bummer.

Hopefully the 2017 Ms are like the 2016 Ps but with 64 (half the no. of) zones and traditional remote with integrated ATSC tuners again.
WTF? They didn't include remotes? Ok, **** Vizio.
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Old 03-10-2017, 09:20 AM

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WTF? They didn't include remotes? Ok, **** Vizio.
It has a remote.
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Old 03-16-2017, 09:36 AM
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It'll be interesting to see what a M70 would be priced at. The E70 is $1,099 so maybe it will be in the mid thousand range. I guess we will see. I just bought my 2016 M70 Sunday and have three months to return if the new line up warrants it.


I'm in the same boat, just got the 2016 M65. I'm hoping they announce something soon so I know whether or not to get this tv calibrated.
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:12 AM
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I'm in the same boat, just got the 2016 M65. I'm hoping they announce something soon so I know whether or not to get this tv calibrated.
I had an M65 and honestly felt like I was settling. I didn't feel like the TV was that spectacular. I ended up getting the P65 for only a little more than my M65 which I returned. If possible I'd highly recommend it or would wait for the 2017 M to be announced (like you are now). Another alternative to consider are the TCL P and C Series coming out in May. You may want to give those a look considering their starting price is low and you get HDR + DV, FALD, nearly 100% P3 Wide Color Gamut.

Like I said, as someone who's owned a 2016 M. Not worth IMO. Just my .02. Now if the 2017 is closer to what the 2016 P series is/was then that'd be very different.
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:19 AM
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I had an M65 and honestly felt like I was settling. I didn't feel like the TV was that spectacular. I ended up getting the P65 for only a little more than my M65 which I returned. If possible I'd highly recommend it or would wait for the 2017 M to be announced (like you are now). Another alternative to consider are the TCL P and C Series coming out in May. You may want to give those a look considering their starting price is low and you get HDR + DV, FALD, nearly 100% P3 Wide Color Gamut.

Like I said, as someone who's owned a 2016 M. Not worth IMO. Just my .02. Now if the 2017 is closer to what the 2016 P series is/was then that'd be very different.
I have no issues with the image quality on the 2016 M series, it is substantially better then the 2015 M65 I had. If Vizio comes out with the 2017 M series or a great sale on the current P series while I'm in the 3 month return policy I'll definitely consider it
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:38 AM
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I have no issues with the image quality on the 2016 M series, it is substantially better then the 2015 M65 I had. If Vizio comes out with the 2017 M series or a great sale on the current P series while I'm in the 3 month return policy I'll definitely consider it
Costco currently has a great rate for them (can't say too much, may get an infraction apparently) that makes it very competetive IMO.
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:30 PM
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Costco currently has a great rate for them (can't say too much, may get an infraction apparently) that makes it very competetive IMO.

An infraction for saying the price you got???

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Old 03-21-2017, 07:04 AM
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An infraction for saying the price you got???
Yes, I mentioned a price comparisons and why I felt the value was better in the 2016 M series thread and was given an infraction. Honestly I think someone reported the post due to not agreeing with my opinion but who knows. That thread had tons of people throwing out prices and when the unit was on sale but I got an infraction.
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Old 03-21-2017, 08:40 AM
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Yes, I mentioned a price comparisons and why I felt the value was better in the 2016 M series thread and was given an infraction. Honestly I think someone reported the post due to not agreeing with my opinion but who knows. That thread had tons of people throwing out prices and when the unit was on sale but I got an infraction.
Wow that's idiotic. It's a forum - you should be able to post that. Geez....

At any rate, I am on my 2nd 2016 M70 already and the third one is on its way. I'm likely going to just return this one and go with the 2017 model, if it specs close the P series. Either that or move to Sony. I guess we will see.

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Old 03-21-2017, 11:18 AM
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Wow that's idiotic. It's a forum - you should be able to post that. Geez....

At any rate, I am on my 2nd 2016 M70 already and the third one is on its way. I'm likely going to just return this one and go with the 2017 model, if it specs close the P series. Either that or move to Sony. I guess we will see.
That was my issue. I went through 4 M's before I just returned directly through Vizio. My 1st one had a bottom left quadrant FALD panel failure so literally a quarter of the screen was dark. The replacement had a a bad panel that looked like it had been squished during transport so you got that pushed in look when in use. The 3rd had tons of connectivity issues and could not hold a connection and restarted itself at random. By the time they sent a 4th I just said screw it.

And No I am not one of those that will freak out over every little thing. Sure I am picky but I felt the QC issues on the 2016 M were very poor and I saw more people having problems with them in person and it just left a bad taste in my mouth. That plus considering you're paying nearly 1300 for an M when the P is right at 1549 at costco now (please don't give me another infraction for trying to make a point) and the P seems to have much better QC. I know mine is great and so are the ones for the 2 other people I know that have them. For such a small difference and the better overall unit, I'd say the 2016 M was nothing spectacular but again that's just my opinion. With TCL stepping up big time with their C and P series and Vizio's own P series so close in price the 2016 M is really a no man's land of a TV. Not quite "premium" and not quite "budget". It's in a weird place this year it seems. I think the 2017 can improve on it and should but we'll see whenever they announce it. Hopefully they drop the tablet remote idea, add in wide color gamut (closer to 90% would rock), and pass the tablet savings on to the customer....but then again without the tablet they don;t really have a true smart OS as the one they use on the D Series seems to not be well liked.
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Old 03-23-2017, 05:20 PM
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My personal opinion is that the tablet thing is here to stay (at least for one more product cycle). I think Vizio believes it's a cleaner way to implement (and update) smart TV features (more unified across its product line). Notice how many reports we see about Sony, Samsung and even Vizio (on older models) disabling apps (or dropping support for those apps) on their legacy smart TVs. In theory, that shouldn't occur with the tablet smart TV approach.

Like most, I'm not a huge fan of it for everyday use. But I also don't find it as problematic and distasteful as some. In fact, I really like it as it relates to calibration and viewing settings. I find it far more convenient for that purpose. But for general everyday use, meh... I pretty much use a Roku Premier+ for streaming and Harmony universal remote for DirecTV feed on my P75. The only time I use the tablet for watching TV is if the content is in DolbyVision. If the Roku streamed DV, I'd probably only use the tablet for settings. With that said, I think outsourcing the smart TV stuff via Chromecast is smart. It's entirely possible using a tablet smart TV approach actually reduces costs--they don't have to worry about supporting the smart TV apps on every different model series. Net/net, it may be cheaper over a product's life cycle. I don't know. But stick with what you know--making high value TVs. Leave the other stuff to the app developers. Just my $0.02.

In terms of the 2017 M Series, my guess is it will be virtually identical to the 2016 P Series in all meaningful ways. They'll probably offer an 80 or 85 inch version at a slight premium to the current market price of the 75" P series (which seems to be settling in at around $3000--retail price of P Series is less relevant at this point in its product cycle, so offering an 80" M that is effectively an 80" version of the 2016 P Series at a retail price less than the retail price of the 75" P series, I don't think really matters anymore since it's highly unlikely anyone would need/want to pay full retail price on a P75 at this point--so $3500 for an 80" M wouldn't be cannibalizing, imho). And then the next P Series will add quantum dots (or something to that effect), more dimming zones, greater peak brightness, and maybe something we haven't thought about yet. My guess is they'll maybe try to get the next P series out in late 2017 before the holidays--but maybe they'll hold off until 2018. Who knows? The issues with LeEco could add some wrinkles. That company seems like it's a mess. And as far as I know, the transaction for Vizio purchase hasn't closed yet. But there's a lot of smoke around that company, LeEco, right now. I'm just hoping that if there is indeed a fire over there, the collateral damage to Vizio is limited.
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Old 03-23-2017, 05:59 PM
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@Jeffrey Suchocki great post. You mimic my exact viewing habits. I still never got why people got soooo hung up on the tablet. Made no sense. I did my dd before I got my M so much so that I left the tablet in the box. Not sure where I put it to be honest. Just use my iphone.
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Old 03-23-2017, 06:55 PM
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Agreed. I LIKE the fact the Vizio is a relatively "dumb" TV. All the bells and whistles from big brand "smart TVs" are annoying. Honestly, I just want an HDR/DV monitor with a decent number of connection inputs (including wifi, obviously), good upscaling, and a decent CMS system (an internal 3D LUT that one could manipulate via software would be nice, too... but that's likely pure fantasy). I'll handle routing the content.

One other comment I failed to make was about this characterization of the statement from the Vizio CTO about the "2-year" product cycle for the P-Series. I think it would be wise to not interpret that too literally. In other words, assuming 2 years = 24 months. If Vizio announced and released a new P-Series in say mid-November of this year (2017), that would be roughly 21 months from the 2016 P-series release. Are people really going to claim they were lied to because of the fact the calendar year happened to be just one year different? Similarly, if for market and/or product development reasons, the next P-series didn't come out until late summer of 2018 (28-29 months or so after the last one), is that really NOT generally consistent with a "2-year" product cycle, too?

My point being this: I wouldn't dismiss the possibility of a 2017 P-Series just because of the aforementioned comment from the CTO. 2-years could mean anywhere from 20-30 months, imho. People are focusing too much on the calendar year timeline. Things change, market conditions evolve. And I think market conditions could very well drive that timeline (at least to some degree--product development is what it is--releasing a product before it's ready for primetime can really backfire, imo--just ask LeEco and the uMax85). If the big brand 2017 models with their additional accoutrements (larger color volume/coverage, HDR processing of SDR material, etc.) are well received, and perhaps more importantly, the HiSense models (with their Vizio like pricing) are also well received by the marketplace, can Vizio really afford to wait until early/mid 2018 to release another premium TV that closes the gap with the big brand premium models? Consider, the big brands will have their 2018 models introduced (not shipped, but introduced at CES)--which would mean the P-series would be two product cycles behind come January 2018 if they have yet to release an update to the P Series. Which would be a big risk--unless they have something up their sleeve that can once again take the market by storm (cheap 75+" OLED?? hahaha... I know... I'm dreaming). Bottom line? If I was a betting man (and I am), I'll bet we see a 2017 P-Series in the fall. The caveat being the assumption the 2017 big brand and HiSense models mostly live up to their hype (the Sony 940E looks stellar--but I think the HiSense models are the bigger factor). If those all disappoint, then it probably will be Spring 2018 until we see another P-Series iteration.

EDIT: I kept saying HiSense for no good reason... really just meant any non-major brand (i.e. a brand other than Sony, LG or Samsung) that is a traditionally "value" or "discount" player that has announced soon to be released "intriguing" (i.e. impressive specs relative to expected price) models. So HiSense/Sharp, TCL... Maybe it's optimistic since they've all fallen well short of hype the last cycle or two, imo. It just feels like its time for one of those Chinese makers to finally breakthrough with a legitimate relatively bug-free premium product at a market changing price. Maybe LeEco can get it's act together. We'll see.
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Last edited by Jeffrey Suchocki; 03-23-2017 at 08:22 PM.
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