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post #1 of 17 Old 12-07-2013, 07:14 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm looking to buy my 2nd Camera in a couple months. I want a APS-H sized sensor, or maybe smaller APS-C.

 

Can you point out some good APS-C or APS-H Camera's. I want it to shoot 1080p video mainly.

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post #2 of 17 Old 12-08-2013, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Guest3123 View Post

I'm looking to buy my 2nd Camera in a couple months. I want a APS-H sized sensor, or maybe smaller APS-C.

Can you point out some good APS-C or APS-H Camera's. I want it to shoot 1080p video mainly.

Nikon D5300. You get 1080p at 24fps and 60fps as well as good dynamic range & great low light.
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post #3 of 17 Old 12-08-2013, 04:47 PM
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I don't think Canon makes an APS-H DSLR anymore. The Canon EOS-1D C shoots 4K video in APS-H crop mode off it's full frame sensor and 1080p in full frame.
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post #4 of 17 Old 12-08-2013, 06:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, I looked at all the Canon specs, non of em have the APS-H dimensions of 27.90mm x 18.60mm, which is APS-H.  I turned to the APS-C instead. I think my 2nd Camera will probably be the following choices. seeing that I looked at all the camera's in the world last night. I don't want a big bulky SLR or DSLR, they look so bulky & e

 

That Canon EOS-1D C is VERY expensive.

 

I'll go with the next best thing, since APS-H doesn't really exist anymore.

 

1. Sony NEX-5T (23.5 X 15.6mm) - 16MP - $600.00
2. Samsung NX300 (23.5 x 15.7mm) - 20MP - $650.00
3. Sony Alpha NEX-6  (23.5 X 15.6mm) - 16MP - $750.00
4. Nikon Coolpix A - (23.6 x 15.6 mm ) 16MP - $1,100.00
5. Sony NEX7 (23.5 X 15.6mm) - 24MP - $1,100.00

 

1. AVCHD: PS - 1920 x 1080/60p @ 28Mbps.
2. MP4 : 1080 x 1920 / 60fps, Full Manual
3. AVCHD: PS - 1920 x 1080/[email protected]
4. MP4 : 1920x1080p / 30fps
5. AVCHD: PS - 1920 x 1080/[email protected]

 

I'm looking at the Samsung NX300. It's cheaper than the Sony NEX7, and has 20MP, Records in MP4 and probably AVCHD 60 fps, and unlike the $600 NX300, it has full manual controls. But I probably wont be able to buy it until February, or later.

 

By the way, I posted some new threads in the camcorder section, showing off my super fast shutter speeds, etc. I really love my new Lumix LX7, it's far better than any camcorder I could of bought. Not to mention it has a much bigger 1/1.7" CMOS @ 7.60mm x 5.70mm (43.32 sq. mm.) rather than the Canon R400 tiny 1/4.85" CMOS @ 2.92mm x 2.16mm (6.3072 sq. mm.).

 

I'm fully aware of sensor sizes now, and I understand where I stand as far as bottom of the barrel. But the LUMIX LX7 is quite a gem.

 

 

01) A = 1/6" : 2.46mm x 1.8mm
02)B = 1/4.85" : 2.92mm x 2.16mm (6.3072)
03) C = 1/4" : 3.6mm x 2.7mm
04) D = 1/3.6" : 4.0mm x 3.0mm
05) iPhone 5 = 1/3.2" : 4.54mm x 3.42mm (15.5268)

06) F = 1/3" : 4.6mm x 3.6mm
07) G = 1/2.7" : 5.37mm x 4.29mm
08) H = 1/2.5" : 5.76mm x 4.29mm
09) I = 1/2.4" : 5.92mm x 4.57mm

10) J = 1/2.33" : 6.13mm x 4.60mm (28.198)
11) K = 1/2.3" : 6.16mm x 4.62mm (28.592) (Supposidly it's the GoPro3 Black Edition), also most Nikon P&S have that size sensor in em. I don't care for em much.
12) L = 1/2" : 6.4mm x 4.8mm
13) M = 1/1.8" : 7.18mm x 5.32mm
14) N = 1/1.75" : 7.38mm x 5.54mm
15) LX7 = 1/1.7" : 7.60mm x 5.70mm (43.32)
16) P = 1/1.6" : 8.08mm x 6.01mm
17) Q = 2/3" : 8.80mm x 6.60mm
18) R = 1/1.2" : 10.67mm x 8.00mm
19) RX100 = 13.20mm x 8.80mm (116.16)
20) 1" : 12.80mm x 9.60mm (122.88)
21) APS-C = 23.60mm x 15.60mm (368.16) - This is what I want to buy next.
22) APS-H = 27.90mm x 18.60mm (518.94)
23) FULL FRAME : 36.00mm x 24.00mm (864.00)
24) Leica S = 45.00mm x 30.00mm ( 1,350 )
25) Pentax 645D = 44.0mm x 33.0mm ( 1,452 )
26) Kodak KAF 39000 CCD = 49.00mm x 36.80mm ( 1,803.20 )
27) IMAX Film Frame = 70.41mm x 52.63mm ( 3,705.6783 )

 

 

Can you tell me what the F Stop means on this chart, for the Sensors? It seems the bigger the sensor, there's an improvement in F Stop value ( Here ). It's the Wikipedia page for all the sensors that exist. It says on the chart, Stops (area). What do those numbers mean? My Lumix LX7 has a value of -4.32, a APS-C sensor has a value of -1.23, and lol, the iMax Camera sensor, which really isn't that important, but it says +2.05.

 

Does that mean that it get's better light, like if I had a 1/1.7" sensor, and say it get's good light threw a F/1.4 lens, then that means a APS-C sensor would be, if I had a F/1.4 for a camera that had a F/1.4 lens it would be like having a .. well if you took -4.32 (1/1.7") stops from -1.23 (APS-C) it would give me "if I had a F/1.4 lens for a APS-C Camera, it would be something like 3.09 stops better? So thats like having a .. idk, it goes into the negative. But I can try to imagine how much better the $999.99 85mm f/1.4 ED NX Lens (EX-T85NB/US) is for low light, for the Samsung NX300. But I don't.

 

I don't understand what those numbers mean on that chart. Do you know what they mean Jogiba ? If not that's ok, it'll probably take me a couple more days to figure it out, or not.. I'd really like to know what those numbers mean.

 

 

Here's some charts I made with Adobe Ps CS5 last night.

 

 

My Lumix LX7 is still pretty small, but that doesn't mean I don't love it, because I really do. I just would like to buy 1 more camera, and see what the APS-C type camera's are all about.

 

The Green is the actual size of the APS-C CMOS Sensor. The Blue is the 1/1.7" CMOS found in the Lumix LX7.

 

 

Same here, but different colors.

 

I made these in Ps CS5. Using real mm, then just blew em up, then captured them with a screen hunter, then drug em back into Ps, and adding some text.

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post #5 of 17 Old 12-08-2013, 06:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MTyson View Post


Nikon D5300. You get 1080p at 24fps and 60fps as well as good dynamic range & great low light.

I know I just told Jogiba that I don't like the big bulky look and feel of the SLR or DSLR, but the Nikon D5300 looks pretty nice, and it's cheaper than $1000 right now, at $800 from Nikon website.

 

Shoots 1080/60p like you said, etc. I really like that. but the Samsung NX300 has a sligtly bigger sensor. So it's probably the Samsng NX300.

 

 

1. Sony NEX-5T (23.5 X 15.6mm) - 16MP - $600.00
2. Samsung NX300 (23.5 x 15.7mm) - 20MP - $650.00
3. Sony Alpha NEX-6  (23.5 X 15.6mm) - 16MP - $750.00
4. Nikon D5300 (23.5 mm x 15.6 mm) - 24MP - $800.00
5. Nikon Coolpix A - (23.6 x 15.6 mm ) 16MP - $1,100.00
6. Sony NEX7 (23.5 X 15.6mm) - 24MP - $1,100.00

 

1. AVCHD: PS - 1920 x 1080/60p @ 28Mbps.
2. MP4 : 1080 x 1920 / 60fps, Full Manual
3. AVCHD: PS - 1920 x 1080/[email protected]
4. 1080 x 1920 60 fps, Idk what format.
5. MP4 : 1920x1080p / 30fps
6. AVCHD: PS - 1920 x 1080/[email protected]

 

The Nikon page isn't very clear about the recording modes, AVCHD or MP4 ? Progressive or Interlaced 60 fps? I'm probably better off getting the Samsung NX300 still.

 

Thanks for the additional APS-C Type Camera. Much appreciated.

 

 

Supposedly it too has full manual too. But there's a few things that is wrong with the Nikon D5300, like can't adjust the aperture on the fly while recording, like I can with my Lumix Lx7.

 

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post #6 of 17 Old 12-08-2013, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Guest3123 View Post


I'm fully aware of sensor sizes now, and I understand where I stand as far as bottom of the barrel. But the LUMIX LX7 is quite a gem.

I don't understand what those numbers mean on that chart. I'd really like to know what those numbers mean.

My Lumix LX7 is still pretty small, but that doesn't mean I don't love it, because I really do. I just would like to buy 1 more camera, and see what the APS-C type camera's are all about.
A pet peeve of mine is that shooting great videos is not about numbers and specifications. In our current world of computers, HD TV, 1080p60 AVCHD, Blu-Ray, etc, you have an exceptionally fine camera. You can spend a boat load of money on equipment based on all your specifications and numbers, but you videos won't get better by any noticeable amount.

Stop shopping and start shooting and editing!

Bill
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post #7 of 17 Old 12-08-2013, 06:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bsprague View Post


A pet peeve of mine is that shooting great videos is not about numbers and specifications. In our current world of computers, HD TV, 1080p60 AVCHD, Blu-Ray, etc, you have an exceptionally fine camera. You can spend a boat load of money on equipment based on all your specifications and numbers, but you videos won't get better by any noticeable amount.

Stop shopping and start shooting and editing!

Bill

Yeah, I'm aware of that. Even if I get a APS-C sensor sized camera, it will only use 1/60th of the sensor shooting 1080/60p. I have taking some videos, and pictures.
 I just really like the different types of camera's and the technology that we have nowadays. It's a major step up from the old 35 & 45mm film camera's I had when I was younger.

 

Here's a couple videos I've done.. so far. Videos that I've taken within the last 24 Hours.

 

Panasonic LUMIX LX7 - My First FULL HD Snow Video @ 1/5,000 Shutter Speed. w/Perfect white balance (0 EV). Taken earlier today.

 

 

Lumix LX7 Shutter Speed Testing - 1/250 - 1/20,00 Shutter Speeds.

 

 

Panasonic Lumix LX7 - Night Video, Low Light, Low Lux (Sorry,, My friend is getting over a cold) Tiss the Season for colds & sickness !

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post #8 of 17 Old 12-08-2013, 06:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Guest3123 View Post
 

Yeah, I'm aware of that. Even if I get a APS-C sensor sized camera, it will only use 1/60th of the sensor shooting 1080/60p. I have taking some videos, and pictures.
 I just really like the different types of camera's and the technology that we have nowadays. It's a major step up from the old 35 & 45mm film camera's I had when I was younger.

 

Here's a couple videos I've done.. so far. Videos that I've taken within the last 24 Hours.

 

Panasonic LUMIX LX7 - My First FULL HD Snow Video @ 1/5,000 Shutter Speed. w/Perfect white balance (0 EV). Taken earlier today.

 

 

Lumix LX7 Shutter Speed Testing - 1/250 - 1/20,00 Shutter Speeds.

 

 

Panasonic Lumix LX7 - Night Video, Low Light, Low Lux (Sorry,, My friend is getting over a cold) Tiss the Season for colds & sickness !


I think I might have over exposed it a bit.. lol. 6400 iso is a little too high. The EV meter even told me so, lol. I just wanted to test it a little bit.. I'll use the correct settings next time for a better or more accurate quality video.

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post #9 of 17 Old 12-08-2013, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Can you tell me what the F Stop means on this chart, for the Sensors? It seems the bigger the sensor, there's an improvement in F Stop value ( Here ).
On that chart the full frame sensor gets a zero so that is the base value and APS-H, APS-C etc are negative numbers. There are no video camera sensors larger than the full frame 35mm sensor like in Canon, Nikon and Sony full frame DSLR style cameras or Sony NEX-VG900 camcorder. Here is a chart showing the advantage of the Sony RX10 1" sensor compared to other small sensor cameras with full frame equivalent F stops:
http://dpreview.com/previews/sony-cybershot-dsc-rx10/images/aperturesAOV.png


Another article showing the advantage of a larger sensor :

http://kenrockwell.com/tech/full-frame-advantage.htm
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post #10 of 17 Old 12-08-2013, 09:04 PM - Thread Starter
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On that chart the full frame sensor gets a zero so that is the base value and APS-H, APS-C etc are negative numbers. There are no video camera sensors larger than the full frame 35mm sensor like in Canon, Nikon and Sony full frame DSLR style cameras or Sony NEX-VG900 camcorder. Here is a chart showing the advantage of the Sony RX10 1" sensor compared to other small sensor cameras with full frame equivalent F stops:
http://dpreview.com/previews/sony-cybershot-dsc-rx10/images/aperturesAOV.png


Another article showing the advantage of a larger sensor :

http://kenrockwell.com/tech/full-frame-advantage.htm

 

Thanks, much appreciated.

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post #11 of 17 Old 12-16-2013, 10:30 AM
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I have the D5300 and I can say that Nikon is consevative with their spec compared to other manufactures.

The 1080P 60 Videos are indeed awesum!

It can record in near dark at 25600.

The 12800 ISO videos are very clean.

If you set the LiveView to "long", an external device can record up to 2 hours continuously before you have to change the camera battery.

I have a two battery grip ordered.

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post #12 of 17 Old 12-16-2013, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by RRRoger View Post

I have the D5300 and I can say that Nikon is consevative with their spec compared to other manufactures.
The 1080P 60 Videos are indeed awesum!
It can record in near dark at 25600.
The 12800 ISO videos are very clean.
If you set the LiveView to "long", an external device can record up to 2 hours continuously before you have to change the camera battery.
I have a two battery grip ordered.

What we have learned in this this forum is that people have very different criteria for "awsum" video:

1. Some think wide dynamic range video is "awsum", regardless of how bad the color is.

2. Some think that sharpness is "awsum", regardless of how narrow the dynamic range.

3. Some think noiseless low-light video is "awsum", regardless of the amount of detail smearing or loss of chroma.

4. Some think accurate color is "awsum", regardless of how low the resolution is.

You get the (ahem) picture. You need to show us this "awsum" video, given that "awsum" is not a technical spec.
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post #13 of 17 Old 12-17-2013, 06:16 AM
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What we have learned in this this forum is that people have very different criteria for "awsum" video:

1. Some think wide dynamic range video is "awsum", regardless of how bad the color is.

2. Some think that sharpness is "awsum", regardless of how narrow the dynamic range.

3. Some think noiseless low-light video is "awsum", regardless of the amount of detail smearing or loss of chroma.

4. Some think accurate color is "awsum", regardless of how low the resolution is.

Exactly. And I would put quotes around "accurate color" - because that's subjective too smile.gif
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post #14 of 17 Old 12-17-2013, 09:16 PM
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Here is my idea of awsum (taken at 12800 ISO)

 

 

It is a little dim after upload processing from original 1080P 60

 

Here is a shorter (2 second clip) in a bowling alley at f/8 ISO 8000

 

https://vimeo.com/82156628

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post #15 of 17 Old 12-17-2013, 09:29 PM
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Color is good (bowling alley) and there is little noise, but the smearing is quite evident - there is loss of much detail (see the floorboards, for example). The lighting is uniform too, so you cannot tell if there is any loss of dynamic range, which is very likely at high ISO's. You might want to turn down NR to get back some resolution (some grain is ok, depending on what is "awsum" to you).
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post #16 of 17 Old 12-17-2013, 09:44 PM
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That was an excellant review of the D5300 by MTyson

However the person doing it obviously has not used the camera much.

My experience is that Video at 12800 ISO in low light is very good, so are the stills.

The AutoFocus does work as well as the 70D. You can stop any "hunting" by using AFS instead of AFF.

You can adjust the F-stop (aperture) while recording in manual mode by pushing the +/- button while spinning the dial.

I've had mine for about 3 weeks and have just started to learn what it can do.

 

My firmware suggestion to Nikon is to enable continuous shooting the way Panasonic has by using 4GB segments.

My camera has not overheated while using an external recorder thru the HDMI port, so I know it can be done.

 

I posts some 12,800 and 8,000 ISO video links but the moderator has pulled them for review.

 

Also, my Meike D5200 grip came, fits the D5300 and work well.

It should add a lot of recording time.

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post #17 of 17 Old 12-17-2013, 09:52 PM
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You should see the original files.

They are vivid by comparison, sharp and lusturous.

They were also 1080P 60. Now I think they are somewhere between 24 and 30 fps to save their file space.

The post processing done by Vimeo is reallysad.

 

Sorry, this is such poor sample of what a D5300 can do.

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