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Old 01-30-2012, 01:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally put this in the sub forum, but realized its prob better suited here.

So im trying to upgrade my HTIB and when looking at subs, I realized I still have my JL Audio 13.5" W7 in a sealed box from my car audio days. I was looking at budget subs like the Polk PSW505 and the BIC F12. Since these are cheap and im looking at upgrading my entire HTIB, a budget sub is probably the way to go. I like the idea of just buying multiple budget subs down the road, no dealing with amps or any of that stuff.

With the W7 just sitting there, it makes me wonder if I should stick to my original plan of selling it to help fund the rest of the setup, or just keep it and buy an amp/eq for it. Since its an amazing sub. I dont really like the idea of spending $500-900 on an amp/eq combo that might blow in time (I went through a few amps in my car when they couldnt handle the w7)

Few questions to anyone who might be familiar with my situation.

1. A friend has a Behringer EP1500 that he will give me for $100. Will that thing be good enough? 2 x 700 Watts @ 2 Ohms; 1,400 Watts @ 4 Ohms the w7 does 3 ohm. I like the idea of just buying another $100 amp if it blows, dont like the idea of spending a few hundred bucks if it blows.

2. Do I really need an EQ? If my AVR has a sub out, cant that thing just tune it?

3. What EQ's are recommended for this type of setup?

4. Should I just get rid of the W7 to fund the rest of the setup and just get a budget sub?
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Old 01-30-2012, 02:02 PM
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Keep the W7 .......it's an incredible driver.......trash the box and build a new one better suited towards LF extension in the home that lacks the cabin gain of a vehicle. The EP amp should be enough to drive the JL . Your receiver's sub out will provide the necessary low pass filter BUT depending on which AVR you have will determine if it can do any usefull bass management.......
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Old 01-30-2012, 02:06 PM
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How does that driver attach, i dont see the mounting holes

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Old 01-30-2012, 02:15 PM
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The holes are under the surround, you have to pull it back to see them
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Old 01-30-2012, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemogoblin View Post

Originally put this in the sub forum, but realized its prob better suited here.

So im trying to upgrade my HTIB and when looking at subs, I realized I still have my JL Audio 13.5" W7 in a sealed box from my car audio days. I was looking at budget subs like the Polk PSW505 and the BIC F12. Since these are cheap and im looking at upgrading my entire HTIB, a budget sub is probably the way to go. I like the idea of just buying multiple budget subs down the road, no dealing with amps or any of that stuff.

With the W7 just sitting there, it makes me wonder if I should stick to my original plan of selling it to help fund the rest of the setup, or just keep it and buy an amp/eq for it. Since its an amazing sub. I dont really like the idea of spending $500-900 on an amp/eq combo that might blow in time (I went through a few amps in my car when they couldnt handle the w7)

Few questions to anyone who might be familiar with my situation.

1. A friend has a Behringer EP1500 that he will give me for $100. Will that thing be good enough? 2 x 700 Watts @ 2 Ohms; 1,400 Watts @ 4 Ohms the w7 does 3 ohm. I like the idea of just buying another $100 amp if it blows, dont like the idea of spending a few hundred bucks if it blows.

2. Do I really need an EQ? If my AVR has a sub out, cant that thing just tune it?

3. What EQ's are recommended for this type of setup?

4. Should I just get rid of the W7 to fund the rest of the setup and just get a budget sub?

That sub is the same sub that JL uses in it's fathom which is their home theater version of the w7. My suggestion would be to do that ep1500 to start with and then maybe get a minidsp to EQ. Assuming you are doing a sealed box, you'll want eq to boost the low end a shade. That amp should handle the w7 but those numbers are pretty high up, check the amp measurements thread that is stickied at the top of the forum, the 1500 doesnt do quite as much as Berry claims, youll probably get 1100 watts bridged tops. Still not a bad fit for that driver...

You could definitely make this work, although Im not sure what the size recommendations are for the 13w7, I used to have a 10w7 in about 2 cuft in my old truck and it loved it. Never had an issue.

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Old 01-30-2012, 05:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input guys. Im leaning towards just getting a cheap Polk PSW505 to hold me over until I have a real dedicated theater room. Right now its in my living room thats 18x19, I think the 13W7 would dominate everything around it, and since im renting I might get kicked out quickly with that thing.

I have been trying on and off to sell the 13w7 but car audio people are not the most reliable buyers, and I would rather just keep it and eventually have a monster in the theater.

The W7 was absolute beast when I had it in my car. I am pretty excited about possibly having it in my theater. At the moment I just dont think I have room for the huge box and two extra rack mount devices.
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Old 01-31-2012, 04:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Cant decide on buying something like a HSU SFT-2, two Polk PSW505's or just doing this darn W7 build. Buying a cheap amp/eq might actually be cheaper than buying a sub.

Few questions.... The W7 is currently wired with zero gauge wire, I am not sure if its connected parallel or what with the dual voice coils, but what is the most likely wiring config, and what do I do about he zero gauge wire? Im pretty sure the Behringer wont take zero gauge.

Is it possible to just screw down the Amp/EQ onto the top of the W7 box? I would really prefer to have everything together since I dont know where I would put rackmount devices.
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Old 01-31-2012, 05:34 PM
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You dont need 0 gauge wire... NotNYT is probably using 12 gauge at most and his lms ultra i guarantee are getting a lot more power than that W7 will ever see
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Old 01-31-2012, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemogoblin View Post

Originally put this in the sub forum, but realized its prob better suited here.

So im trying to upgrade my HTIB and when looking at subs, I realized I still have my JL Audio 13.5" W7 in a sealed box from my car audio days. I was looking at budget subs like the Polk PSW505 and the BIC F12. Since these are cheap and im looking at upgrading my entire HTIB, a budget sub is probably the way to go. I like the idea of just buying multiple budget subs down the road, no dealing with amps or any of that stuff.

With the W7 just sitting there, it makes me wonder if I should stick to my original plan of selling it to help fund the rest of the setup, or just keep it and buy an amp/eq for it. Since its an amazing sub. I dont really like the idea of spending $500-900 on an amp/eq combo that might blow in time (I went through a few amps in my car when they couldnt handle the w7)

Few questions to anyone who might be familiar with my situation.

1. A friend has a Behringer EP1500 that he will give me for $100. Will that thing be good enough? 2 x 700 Watts @ 2 Ohms; 1,400 Watts @ 4 Ohms the w7 does 3 ohm. I like the idea of just buying another $100 amp if it blows, dont like the idea of spending a few hundred bucks if it blows.

2. Do I really need an EQ? If my AVR has a sub out, cant that thing just tune it?

3. What EQ's are recommended for this type of setup?

4. Should I just get rid of the W7 to fund the rest of the setup and just get a budget sub?

I ran TWO JL 13W7s in two 4 ft^3 sealed boxes, powered by a Crown CE4000 each (2800 watts). 1000 watts really doesn't do the JLs justice in my opinion.

If you can make a good quality enclosure, it's very worthwhile to do a build around the JL. I did a lot of research back in the day, and unforunately, not a lot of home amplifiers can handle the 3 ohm load.

So I ended up with a Crown CE4000, and there are a few other alternatives that could work well.

Overall, the JLs really had very good SQ, and I've upgraded to a few 18s since.
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Old 01-31-2012, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by hemogoblin View Post

since im renting I might get kicked out quickly with that thing.

Oh, if you're renting, I wouldn't bother with a giant sub. My neighbours from 10 feet away could hear my JLs in their HOUSE.
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Old 01-31-2012, 09:05 PM - Thread Starter
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I already have it in a sealed box that was used in my car, and im thinking about buying my buddies Behringer ep1500 to hold me over for now. I definitely wont be playing it too loud.

Did you use an EQ to go along with the Crown amps? Or was your AVR enough?

Just wondering about how I would connect this thing if I get both the amp and eq (like a behringer eq2496). Would it go AVR sub out-EQ-Amp ?
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Old 02-01-2012, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemogoblin View Post

I already have it in a sealed box that was used in my car, and im thinking about buying my buddies Behringer ep1500 to hold me over for now. I definitely wont be playing it too loud.

Did you use an EQ to go along with the Crown amps? Or was your AVR enough?

Just wondering about how I would connect this thing if I get both the amp and eq (like a behringer eq2496). Would it go AVR sub out-EQ-Amp ?

I made a sealed box that is 1 ft^3 for my old JL 12W7, which my friend is using. In his scenario, the box is far too small for home use. How big is your sealed box?

Eitherway, if you aren't playing it too loud, your existing sealed box should be good to hold you over. When you revisit the box, I found my 13W7s sounded great in a 4 ft^3 (each) sealed box.

Try out the EP1000 first. I've read the EP2500 didn't like a 3 ohm load too much, that's why I ended up with the Crown. Even a CE4000 was clipping once in a while with the JLs.

I have pretty extensive sound treatments in my room, so I did not bother use an EQ. What you are refering to might be a line driver (increase output voltage). Try what you got first, and see. If you aren't going to play it too loud, I don't think you will need a line driver.

I have an Anthem AVM30, which has direct XLR output, and it has enough voltage output for me to achieve full output on my Crowns.
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Old 02-01-2012, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemogoblin View Post

I already have it in a sealed box that was used in my car, and im thinking about buying my buddies Behringer ep1500 to hold me over for now. I definitely wont be playing it too loud.

Did you use an EQ to go along with the Crown amps? Or was your AVR enough?

Just wondering about how I would connect this thing if I get both the amp and eq (like a behringer eq2496). Would it go AVR sub out-EQ-Amp ?

THIS THIS THIS!! No point in buying another sub when you have two out of the three pieces and if done right, you will have one KILLER setup. please refresh me though, is the jl dual voice coil or single? Neighbors get mad, just turn your sub trim down. 100% of the time they might get mad, they wouldnt know which sub you were using if you were playing them at the same level might as well have one that will go harder should you want to though!

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Old 02-01-2012, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

THIS THIS THIS!! No point in buying another sub when you have two out of the three pieces and if done right, you will have one KILLER setup. please refresh me though, is the jl dual voice coil or single? Neighbors get mad, just turn your sub trim down. 100% of the time they might get mad, they wouldnt know which sub you were using if you were playing them at the same level might as well have one that will go harder should you want to though!

1.5 ohm DVC The 13W7 really sounded fantastic when I had them in my setup.
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Old 02-01-2012, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by macming View Post

1.5 ohm DVC The 13W7 really sounded fantastic when I had them in my setup.

yep thats what I thought, I still think the real-world impedance would be slightly higher than 3ohm, so he should be ok, clipping would only come into effect more than likely after the neighbors had already called the po-trons.

I sold a 10w7 about 3 years ago and really regret never trying it in my setup. truly the LMS of the car audio world... I beat the living crap outa mine and never had ANY issues with it, EVER...

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Old 02-01-2012, 09:31 AM
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yep thats what I thought, I still think the real-world impedance would be slightly higher than 3ohm, so he should be ok, clipping would only come into effect more than likely after the neighbors had already called the po-trons.

I sold a 10w7 about 3 years ago and really regret never trying it in my setup. truly the LMS of the car audio world... I beat the living crap outa mine and never had ANY issues with it, EVER...

naa.. During my research for amps, the JL 13W7s are closer to a 2 ohm driver than 3. I had two 13W7s, and one 12W7.

I managed to fry the voice coil on one 13W7 because I cut the hole for the box a bit too bit (air leaks just kill the driver's power handling).

The SQ from the 13W7 is great, but my new LMS 5400 has much more output
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Old 02-01-2012, 09:46 AM
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naa.. During my research for amps, the JL 13W7s are closer to a 2 ohm driver than 3. I had two 13W7s, and one 12W7.

I managed to fry the voice coil on one 13W7 because I cut the hole for the box a bit too bit (air leaks just kill the driver's power handling).

The SQ from the 13W7 is great, but my new LMS 5400 has much more output

i read your other thread, its great to hear how much of an improvement it is from your previous system, I can only hope that when I move to 18's I will experience the same thing...seems almost like a much more drastic improvment than I could ever imagine without changing any other variables.

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Old 02-01-2012, 10:21 AM - Thread Starter
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I have no idea about power and amps. What happens if I get an amp that cannot provide the proper power? Like something underpowered that wont do 3ohm.

Do I stand a chance of actually damaging the w7? Or is it more of the w7 will work and just be underpowered and the amp could blow from too much load?
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Old 02-01-2012, 10:34 AM
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Lower power just means it won't play as loud and clean. If an amp can't handle a 3 ohm load it will overheat and clip on peaks. A few to several hundred watts can do a significant amount of bass. It also depends on the sensitivity or efficiency of the driver.

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Old 02-01-2012, 10:36 AM
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I would definitely try it with the ep amp you mentioned. It might even sound good to you in the sealed car box. If not, build your own optimized box. And if it won't play loud enough, buy a bigger amp.

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Old 02-01-2012, 11:01 AM - Thread Starter
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I would definitely try it with the ep amp you mentioned. It might even sound good to you in the sealed car box. If not, build your own optimized box. And if it won't play loud enough, buy a bigger amp.

Great. As long as I cant actually damage the W7, thats all I care about. I think I can even use those crimp connections you suggested to extended the wires coming out of the W7. This setup is looking more like a win win win.

I use one of the drivers I have sitting, I have a great sub that I KNOW ill be happy with, and its going to be cheaper than buying even a budget sub.
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Old 02-01-2012, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macming View Post

I managed to fry the voice coil on one 13W7 because I cut the hole for the box a bit too bit (air leaks just kill the driver's power handling).

That's true, but it kills the mechanical power handling, not the thermal power handling you describe. Something else caused your VC to burn.

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Old 02-01-2012, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

i read your other thread, its great to hear how much of an improvement it is from your previous system, I can only hope that when I move to 18's I will experience the same thing...seems almost like a much more drastic improvment than I could ever imagine without changing any other variables.

So much depends on your current setup, but if you go to quality 18" drivers, you will get more output as the bare minimum

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Originally Posted by hemogoblin View Post

I have no idea about power and amps. What happens if I get an amp that cannot provide the proper power? Like something underpowered that wont do 3ohm.

Do I stand a chance of actually damaging the w7? Or is it more of the w7 will work and just be underpowered and the amp could blow from too much load?

If you constantly clip the amplifer, you will fry the voice coil. Under powering is actually much more harmful than over powering. BUT if you keep your volume down, the speaker should be OK.

I'm pretty sure I killed one of my 13W7s showing off Iron man at a high volume, when the clip light on my amplifier came on.


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That's true, but it kills the mechanical power handling, not the thermal power handling you describe. Something else caused your VC to burn.

That's interesting. I might've just put too much power through it, who knows. I always put some speaker gasket foam on the back now days to ensure an air tight seal.
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Old 02-01-2012, 03:52 PM - Thread Starter
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So much depends on your current setup, but if you go to quality 18" drivers, you will get more output as the bare minimum

If you constantly clip the amplifer, you will fry the voice coil. Under powering is actually much more harmful than over powering. BUT if you keep your volume down, the speaker should be OK.

Really? Thats something to consider. Maybe I should just opt for a better amp now. Can I just set the gain down on the amp to prevent any clipping? I really only care about protecting my W7, a burned out amp I expect.

And how important is buying an EQ? I thought it was needed but as I do more reading, people are using it with meters and all this other stuff, I just want the sub to sound good.

The two AVR's which I have are Onkyo ht-r330 which a reviewer says "The HT-R330 even has an adjustable subwoofer crossover frequency. " This AVR has no sub out, just a regular speaker cable out labeled subwoofer which is used for its own passive subwoofer.

And the Denon AVR-687 This has an rca sub out and also has a sub crossover frequency selection.

With those two fairly older AVR's do I need an EQ?
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Old 02-01-2012, 04:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok. I didn't research enough. After more searching, I think i have the idea of an EQ. It can simply enhance frequency's for your specific room and seating area, right? Its definitely not a requirement. But if I am not happy with the way the sub sounds, I can always add a EQ. Looks like I have more budget for an amp.
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Old 02-01-2012, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by hemogoblin View Post

Really? Thats something to consider. Maybe I should just opt for a better amp now. Can I just set the gain down on the amp to prevent any clipping? I really only care about protecting my W7, a burned out amp I expect.

IF you are never going to turn up the volume, then you may be OK with a lesser amp. I'm against buying anything twice though. Just get a proper amp for the JL and keep the gain down if need to.

The Crown CE4000 was a clear winner during my search, but times may have changed, and people seem to like the Lab Clones.

Maybe try your friend's EP1000 for a while and see how it works? If the clip light never comes on, and the amp doesn't go into protection mode, you might be OK.


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Ok. I didn't research enough. After more searching, I think i have the idea of an EQ. It can simply enhance frequency's for your specific room and seating area, right? Its definitely not a requirement. But if I am not happy with the way the sub sounds, I can always add a EQ. Looks like I have more budget for an amp.

I wouldn't bother with an EQ. With some preamps, you may need a line driver to boost the signal voltage. Most of the case, you won't need one. I'd devote more resources to the amp.
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Old 02-04-2012, 12:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Uh Oh. I removed the w7 from the box today to see how it was wired and connected it to my Onkyo AVR to to hear it. The sub sounds blown.

I hear all types of movement and only when I hold the cone down does it sound clean.

How the hell is this possible! I bought it maybe 5-6 years ago, used it in my car for about 2-3 years, never played it super loud, used a JL Audio 1000/1 amp, and when I put it away the last time it was still working fine. It has been doing nothing but sitting in my garage for about 3 years.

Is it possible weather got to it? I saw some mold on the box itself, but did that get to the sub? Could a drop of the box caused the voice coil damage?

Those are the only two bad things I can think of that might have affected it. Its just been sitting there. I dont remember if the box was actually dropped, but it is a 150lb box and maybe someone dropped it, but I dont think so. Physically the sub looks fine, no signs of weather.

Could the Onkyo just be giving it crappy signal? Any definitive way to find out of its ok? SHOOT!
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Old 02-04-2012, 12:52 PM
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Don't panic yet.
You can't be sure about the sub until you connect it to a proper amp.
Your AV receiver may not be able to handle the load properly.
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Old 02-04-2012, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, I measured the w7 with a dmm and I am getting 3ohm. But when I press up and down on the cone, I hear a faint scratchy noise. The cone should be completely silent when going up and down correct?
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Old 02-04-2012, 06:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok an update. I brought the sub in to the shop where I bought it and hoped to test it. I took the W7 bare with no box and the guy said he didnt have time today to put it in a box real quick to test properly, he said it will probably sound funny with no box. I tested it that way with no box. I also didnt have the O-Ring that goes around the top of the cone installed. He said he doubts the o-ring has anything to do with it, but it would be better to test that way.

He also pushed the sub in and out and put something like a dmm onto each VC that made the woofer jump to what seemed like full excursion. He said it seems fine and the voice coils are ok. I asked him about the weather and dropping it and he says physically it looked fine so he doubts weather is an issue. And if it was dropped, you would probably see the magnet not be aligned and he has seen that before in other w7's.

So in a nutshell, he says its probably fine, but I need to either come back when he has free time to put the sub into his box, or I can put it back into my old sealed box and he would gladly test it while its in my box. He did not test it while it was bare and boxless.

He also offered to build a dual ported box painted or stained and designed for the home for $300. I might do that if the sub works.
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